Thooughts on Half-Blood Prince

[lls_mutant]

Okay. Finished.

Overall? I really liked a lot of this.

I loved the politics. I loved Tom Riddle's backstory. The Horcruxes work for me. Loved the stupidity of kids dating. ("Won-Won" cwacked me up.) LOVED Phlegm. LOVED Neville's grandmother having failed her O.W.L. in Charms. Luna's Quidditch commentary cracked me up. Great humor. And ADORED chapter 2.

What I hated: not too much. I could have done with some toned-down emphasis on shipping. Not so much the kids (I work with high-school kids, and they were definitely acting like them!), but the adults. Pince/Filch, for crying out loud???

And of course, Remus/Tonks. But let me tell you why....

First of all, this in no way invalidates Remus/Sirius in my mind. Sirius IS dead, and I've accepted that one from his first fall through the draperies. Remus needs to move on, and I'm okay with that part now. What bugged me was Tonks's pathetic drooping into lovelorness. Oh. My. God. That was AWFUL. She was constantly depressed for MONTHS, and even when I've been depressed about a relationship, I've had ups and downs. What happened to the smart-ass, Moody-sassing, kick-butt Tonks of OotP? If Remus had gone for THAT Tonks, I could understand. But the message here? Sulk and shake the guy by his robes and he'll fall in love with you!

Of course, my angst brain immediately kicked in with Remus being a jerk and sleeping with her a few times for comfort, Tonks taking it as more than it was and falling in love, and Remus finally coming around that maybe he should give this a shot.

I do take Tonks/Remus as canon now, because if I let myself believe it's not I'm really set up for a disappointment. But I can promise you there will not be any R/T fics from me. She's not the same character I've been picturing in my head like this.

Other things I wasn't so fond of: Snape shouting he was the Half-Blood Prince, Harry's obsession with Draco, and... shoot. There was something else. I'm forgetting. And I wanted to shake Dumbledore, but so did everyone else so I'm not going to argue there.

Things I would have liked: Um, that Godric's Hollow trip? More about the Founders? But that I might get in Book 7.

Two additional thoughts:

I really rushed on Chapter 9 of Accidentally In Love, because I wanted to get it in before HBP and I knew people were looking forward to it. Two people pointed out that it showed- the text was expository in many places and I skipped over some things were a little more time spent would have been good. I agree with this assessment, especially since I went back and reread chapter 9. However, I think JKR made the same mistake I did. A lot of this felt very expository and rushed, and like she's feeling a little overwhelmed with the number of characters and the world she's created. I totally understand that, but I definitely felt it in this one.

And two: as far as Accidentally In Love goes, um, I don't believe this, but I got off scott-free. Almost every last thing I've written can still be taken as canon-compliant. I don't believe it. (And you KNOW Damien- Mr. Auror and All-time-sensitivity- certainly would have pissed off Greyback!) I need to come up with some Patroni for the rest of the crew (anyone have suggestions? I know Lily's, but that's it), but everything I've written is still valid- including Regulus. I need to make some changes to how I was going to write Regulus's death, but that doesn't bug me at all. I can't believe it.

Anyway, it will take time for everything to sink in, but overall, I enjoyed it. And while Remus/Tonks annoyed me, it's not enough to tick me off totally.

Thoughts? Comments? Vents?

Comments

[ignipes.livejournal.com]

I agree. With, uh, basically everything. Tonks is pathetic , and that hospital scene was insufferably tacky (and am I the only one who agreed with Remus that it was a really, really bad time to be bringing that up...?). But, really, it's pretty silly. JKR has a gigantic anvil in her house that says LOVE FIXES EVERYTHING NO REALLY IT DOES ESPECIALLY THE MARRIED AND HAPPILY EVER AFTER KIND, which is complete bollocks, but, hey, it's a fairy tale.

I'm amused that so many people said there's a lot of 'shipping in the book. Well, there's a lot of dating, sure. But love stories? Er, no. Lasting relationships? Well, Fleur and Bill are going to be happy, but everybody else? Kid stuff. (Yes, Nymphadora-pine-for-months-and-become-LITERALLY-POWERLESS-without-the-love-of-a-man-and-set-back-the-cause-of-feminism-and-independent-women-a-few-centuries-while-you're-at-it-Tonks, I'm looking at you.)

I loved Ginny. She was the ONLY female in the story who didn't act like an idiot because of love.

Um, I'll probably post in my own journal, but loved the Riddle backstory, and the magic in this book was SO cool.

And R.A.B.? Regulus Black is my new imaginary boyfriend. Just sayin'. HE'S MINE ALL MINE STAY AWAY FANGIRLS HE'S MINE.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

About to crash but:

yes to icky love fixes all. No it doesn't.

Yes to not many lasting relationships. I did like Bill and Fleur. And yeah, Remus was RIGHT. Especially since he'd just lost, oh, HIS BEST LINK TO SOCIETY.

Ginny was cool, too. And agree with Riddle (which is what I really liked about this book) and a lot of the magic.

And yeah. Regulus is gonna be COOL.

But sleep....

[occult-proposal.livejournal.com]

completely aside from my abhorence for Remus/Tonks, you're right: Tonks was horrible. I mean I quite *liked* tonks last book but she was so pathetic here, mousy brown hair and all.
I also agree on the love thing. she seemed to straining to push it too hard. I mean at that point did i care at all about Remus's love life? no.
Overall I'm very dissapoointed with the way she handled all of the romance in the book except for the stuff with ron. I thought that was quite good.

[marauderthesn.livejournal.com]

I'm glad to see that someone is still on the ship regardless! (You're the first person whose reactions I've read.)

I actually liked Tonks a lot better once we saw the depths of her emotions. (More thoughts about that on my journal.)

[rubytuesday1313.livejournal.com]

Ok, just a few thoughts. I have nothing against Remus/Tonks. As much as I don't want to admit that Sirius is permanently out of the picture, I'll accept it. Remus deserves to move on and have other relationships and as good a life as he can possibly have in the middle of the war, now that his life with Sirius is unfortunately over.

The real problem I have is with the way JKR presented it. She made Tonks really, really out of character from what we see of her in OotP. She was a very strong, independent female character. No she's all depressed and pining and everything. The bit with brining it up in the hospital wing (can we say tactless), she was acting more like a teenager with a crush than the mature woman we've seen earlier. And it sounds like it was something she and Remus had discussed before. I'd think she would be more respectful of his feelings and not bother him once he'd made it clear that he didn't want a relationship.

I'm definitely not going to stop shipping. R/T now does not in any way rule out R/S in the past. (I personally don't think the R/T was all that strong, but that's not the point here.) If we can survive the death of one of the characters, this should be no problem.

[krisomniac.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'm going in a new direction. Yeah, Tonks was pretty pathetic, but she's also a KID, basically. She's very young, not terribly mature, and hence the patheticism.

I've thought about this all day, and my problem with the story and Remus/Tonks was less Tonks than bloody REMUS. He completely and utterly disappointed me, in his actions, inactions, even his speech patterns (although he gets an eleven on the ten point scale for pointing out that the timing of the bedside twu wove conversation sucked), his impotence, his passivity. This is not the Remus Lupin I so enjoyed reading in both PoA and OOtP. He no longer exists in canon, and so I wash my hands of him.

There are other interesting characters now. There is Ginny, who she dragged out of one dimensionality. There is Draco, who she attempted (if clumsily) to develop. There is Tom Bloody Riddle -- who, did anyone notice, went to school at the same time as Snape's mum (assuming in was her book in which he wrote). Heheheee.

So yeah. For me Remus and Sirius no longer exist. JKR has completely killed the characters I loved, and now I've only to find new ones or give up on the series altogether.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Ron/Lavender was hysterical. I got a kick out of Hermione trying to use McClaggen to get revenge and having it backfire, too.

But yeah- Remus's love life was NOT the topic for discussion there. and throughout the whole thing, I never got the impression he cared much about her. Whenever Molly mentioned her, he just kind of looked at her blankly, and he didn't even KNOW where she was spending Christmas. And shaking him and throwing a temper tantrum...

Ah well. At least the Harry-plot of the book was cool! :)

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

If I could believe it wasn't entirely about Remus, I'd agree with you. But I don't get the impression that was what was fully intended. ::Sigh::

Oh well!

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Agree fully. And even by the end, Remus still sounded coerced into it. Honestly, did the guy smile ONCE the entire book?

I've always been okay with Remus moving on- I just didn't like him and Tonks as a pair because I didn't think they were well suited. We'll see. But yeah, in the hospital? Right after he's lost DUMBLEDORE? I mean, even Harry commented on how distraught Remus was about that. (Which makes sense. Who gave Remus an education and a job when no one else would? Who gave Remus a place in society?) And she claims to LOVE him?

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Heh. Actually, the more I think of it, the more I think Remus was a complete jerk in HBP. Harry WANTED Remus to write, and Remus never did? But he could sneak off from his spy job and have dinner with the Weasleys?

And then his reasons for not wanting a relationship, when Remus is desperate to be liked. I think if he really liked her back, he wouldn't have fought so hard. I'm guessing he actually jerked her around quite a bit. Slept with her (and Tonks, being a kid like you said, made sex=love), and then said "no, I'm not really that interested."

I assumed it was Snape's book, actually. :) But the ages are right for Tom and Snape's mom to have gone to school together. And Ginny was AWESOME. I actually liked all the non-R/T parts of HBP pretty well.

And I'm ticked that Snape's father was named Tobias. Um, that's like our #1 name for a boy (because I love the name Toby). Thanks, JKR!

[ignipes.livejournal.com]

Of course, my angst brain immediately kicked in with Remus being a jerk and sleeping with her a few times for comfort, Tonks taking it as more than it was and falling in love, and Remus finally coming around that maybe he should give this a shot.

I don't think that's what JKR is writing (in fact, I'd bet good money it's not), but I think that makes it LOADS more interesting. :) We already know Remus isn't exactly a saint, and he has some odd ideas about how people think (not really his fault).

I don't even know that I would call it being a jerk, because that implies that he was deliberately misleading her, and that's unnecessary. Making a bad decision in the aftermath of tragedy, yes, and being a bit clueless as to what's going on. But not really being mean about it. Just...stupid and careless and kind of blind. As ALL men are, especially those dealing with much younger women. Even Remus is an idiot, though many fangirls would jab their own eyes out before they admit it.

Anyway, like I said, NOT what JKR is writing, but way more fun to think about.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm sure it's not what JKR is writing :) I honestly can't figure out what she's writing, because Tonks implies they've had this conversation tons of times, and Remus can't even figure out where she is (or be bothered to care) for Christmas. (And if he DOES care, why is he moping? I'm so confused.)

Even Remus is an idiot, though many fangirls would jab their own eyes out before they admit it.

I'll concede that. I don't think he was doing it quite deliberately, but deliberately closing his mind off. But man, I actually did start getting frustrated with him this book.

No letters to Harry, but he can get to the Weasleys for dinner every now and then. And Harry wanted them.

No Christmas present to Harry this year, although I doubt anyone got a Christmas present from Remus.

Sulking by the fire. Either a.) he WAS mourning Sirius, but b.) I'm more inclined to think that JKR means for us to think he was moping about Tonks and not knowing what to do. ::Gag:: Thanks, but I'll stick to Sirius for that one. (I'm hoping the Leaky Cauldron interview doesn't even TOUCH on Remus/Sirius.)

Although at least he did say this wasn't the time or place for this discussion.

::Sigh::

[ignipes.livejournal.com]

No letters to Harry, but he can get to the Weasleys for dinner every now and then. And Harry wanted them.

I wasn't at all surprised by that. (Wasn't surprised by Sirius leaving everything to Harry, either.) Remus is NOT a father figure to Harry. He should be by logic and sense and the way real people are, but he's not, because JKR's characters do not care for logic and sense and the way real people are.

Actually, the bit that bothered me the most about Remus? He's looking EVEN MORE ragged and gaunt. That's just plain silly. Dear Jo: Enough already! WE GET IT. She was really weilding her sledgehammer without mercy, wasn't she?

But he was totally thinking about Sirius during the Christmas scene. When Molly asked about Tonks the next day, he was like, "Tonks? Oh, her. She's with her family, duh. Gimme more food, I'm ragged and gaunt!" And Tonks spending Christmas alone? Darling Jo, now you're just being an bloody idiot. Why wouldn't she be with her family?

What I think happened, though, is that JKR realised that all the fans adore Remus, so she stuck him in HBP in a weird, nonsensical role, even though she didn't really have anything for him to do. (She has that problem with most of her secondary characters...Fred and George, for example.) 'Spying on werewolves' and 'being a love interest' are, without a doubt, the two least creative things she could have come up with. But they're pretty harmless in the end. At least he's not evil or dead. :)

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

I'm debating how I feel about the letters. Somehow, I just think it wasn't meant to be that important.

She was really weilding her sledgehammer without mercy, wasn't she?

You mean, Lily was good at Potions, too? :)

Very true about him not being evil or dead! (Dead I could possibly handle. Evil and I would have thrown the book.) I also just saw on Leaky Cauldron that Wormtail will not kill Remus, which, even though I've been thinking that might have to happen, actually makes me happy. Wormtail killing Remus is cliche.

I'm thinking by the time book 7 comes out, I won't care so much anymore. I won't be neck-deep in the fandom, and I'll have fully accepted that no matter what I think, Tonks and Remus are a couple. But yeah- I NEVER got the hint he was thinking about Tonks.

I can see where krislaughs is frustrated with Remus. Fortunately, outside Remus, the rest of the book was pretty darn cool. (I hate saying that, but it's true. The outside Remus part, I mean.)

[ignipes.livejournal.com]

The sledgehammer was EVERYWHERE. Oh, my goodness, there was nothing subtle in this book. In fact, it would be kind of fun to make a list all the huge shiny anvils she dropped, just in case any of her readers had forgotten how to, you know, think. Just the fact that Regulus (or whoever R.A.B. is) signed the note is ridiculous. I guess if it was Regulus, we can say it was that old Black family pride coming out, but really it was a clue for the Scooby Gang to follow in Book 7.

I'm debating how I feel about the letters. Somehow, I just think it wasn't meant to be that important.

It's really not. Neither is Sirius' will, except that it introduces the question of who own 12GP (and, hence, the mysterious snake locket in OotP). And, clearly, neither is Remus. Remus served a very important purpose in PoA, vanished in GoF, and was nothing more than background noise in OotP and HBP. It's disappointing, but I'm weirded out that so many people are surprised by it. JKR may be keeping him about for Book 7, but since PoA he hasn't done anything useful in Harry's story at all. After PoA, the story doesn't change in any important way if you remove Remus entirely. The backstory changes, but since we don't know the backstory fully, that's the realm of fandom speculation. I think we, as fangirls, tend to forget this and give him far more importance than the books merit.

I think it really does come down to the fact that what the fandom loves and thinks is fascinating is not always tied very closely to the story JKR is writing. It never has been, otherwise nobody would write anything but Next Year Trio Fics, but it's easy to forget that.

But, to change the topic back to wild and totally non-canon speculation, I saw somebody comment that they thought Remus was going to go after Snape at the end of HBP. Not gonna happen in canon, but how cool would that be? That would make a brilliantly twisted revenge story.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

I think we, as fangirls, tend to forget this and give him far more importance than the books merit.

I definitely agree with this. I think we also attach more meaning and depth to his relationship with Sirius (even in a friendship way) than JKR does. Which is too bad, but on the other hand, yes makes much more interesting fics. (Ficcing the trio does nothing for me, overall.)

One thing it reminds me of is Uncle Alphard. Uncle Alphard there existed for one reason and one reason only: to give Sirius financial independence at a young age and make it plausible that Sirius had enough gold of his own to buy Harry a Firebolt. But it amazes me how in the R/S sections of fandom he becomes a huge area of speculation. (I realize he's a major character in my fics, but that's precisely why. I KNEW I was never going to be contradicted by JKR about him.) Of course, I thought the same thing about Regulus to an extent, and it looks like I was dead wrong there, so... who knows?

saw somebody comment that they thought Remus was going to go after Snape at the end of HBP.

That would be so, so, so cool. I'd love to see the two of them have a showdown.

I thought it was really interesting that Peter was forced to live with Snape and wait on him. Sad that Peter keeps being so pathetic, but after how Peter and his friends treated Snape in school, it was kind of interesting to see the tables turned. It would be really interesting if there was a three-way showdown with Lupin, Snape, and Peter. I think, at this point, they all hate each other pretty equally.

[maglors-finch.livejournal.com]

I could have done with some toned-down emphasis on shipping.

The middle part of the book - the Riddle memories excepted - read like one big soap opera (with Ron/Lavender bordering on slapstick), and toward the end the number of ships really exploded (I'll have a hard time getting over Filch/Pince...). Given JKR's satirical tendencies, though, I strongly suspect her of wanting to make fun of all the fanon shipping. Also, I think she wanted to get all the romance stuff out of the way before the great showdown in Book 7; I don't expect much more shipping from now on. Though, much to my surprise, I do find myself hoping Harry and Ginny will get back together again.

A lot of this felt very expository and rushed, and like she's feeling a little overwhelmed with the number of characters and the world she's created.

Complete agreement here. OotP had too much detail and was too slow paced; HBP was almost too fast paced (except the shipping parts). The word that kept coming to mind while I was reading it, was 'flat'. At times it felt as though JKR, while sure of her plot, is much less sure about her own presentation; did she rush things too much in the new book because OotP got a lot of criticism for meandering? Also, it seems she doesn't quite know what to do with all these interesting characters she's created. Lots of characters were underused (Luna, Neville, Remus, Wormtail, Moody, even McGonagall, who was so much more interesting in OotP); the Order of the Phoenix receded to the background). Ultimately, it seems JKR is a plot-writer, more than a tapestry weaver. But having said this, I must add that plotwise, this was vintage Rowling. The whole Prince twist was brilliant, and just like you, I loved Chapter 2.

What bugged me was Tonks's pathetic drooping into lovelorness.

I didn't quite read it like that. In the first place, I believe Tonks genuinely felt she'd failed Sirius by not taking down Bella, once she got time to think. In the second place, I think she wasn't lovesick, but rather sick with worry for Remus. Inn the Christmas chapter, he struck me as thorougly depressed, almost clinically so (and IMO this is the real reason why he didn't write Harry, but he refrains from saying so because he doesn't want to burden Harry any further. Or maybe he doesn't realise how depressed he is). The way he's described doesn't merely scream "destitution" to me; he doesn't even seem to care about his appearance anymore: a sure sign of depression.

He's lost Sirius all over again, and he is less resilient than he was at twenty-two. On top of that he's working undercover, carrying out what seems a hopeless mission among people who ought to be his companions in misfortune but aren't, because they don't trust him, even though he shares their appalling circumstances for long periods of time. That makes him a double outcast, both among wizards and among werewolves. He feels hopeless, and it shows. Tonks must know this too, and what eats her in the first place is that he refuses to share it with her (probably because he doesn't want to burden her either). She's angry because he's suffering from a misplaced sense of protectiveness. It's Harry who sees it in terms of Tonks moping over unrequited love, but his judgement has been faulty before. It's also a typical teenage reaction.

Granted, Tonks does lose it a little in the hospital and Remus' reaction is less than elegant. But come on, he's just fallen apart because now he's lost Dumbledore too, his big idol, while she wants nothing more than to be his Fleur, conficent that she can handle it. I can totally understand both of them, and I think the scene has all the akwkwardness of reality, especially wartime reality. It's a typical wartime romance (and a fitting sequel to R/S as well...).

I'm happy AIL remains compatible with canon, and I'm looking forward to read your version of Regulus' death!

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

The thing that bothers me about the Tonks bit is Merope and her drooping into powerlessness because of her unrequited love. I saw that as a bit of a parallel. But I do agree that it IS probably a bit more complicated thanthat :)

The clinical depression aspect of Remus is very interesting... the poor boys just don't seem to be able to escape this, do they? I must ponder that one!

The hospital, however, will always tick me off. The timing was terrible, and the fact that they've apparently had this conversation "millions" of times but he couldn't even say where she was for Christmas... ah well. Small matter, nd it shall fade!

[maglors-finch.livejournal.com]

I bet Remus knew perfecty well where she was, but wanted to avoid further discussion by pretending not to.

Also, I've read a brand new fanfic in which Remus tries to cut his ties with her because he's afraid Greyback will find out he's got a love interest, and set out to bite her. It sounded very plausible.

[yma2.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean by Remus/Tonks... but I don't mind it so much myself. I can see how some fun can be hand from this. Dissagree with you on the Snape angle, I saw it coming fairly easily, but maybe that's just me. I agree with you on her writng style though, it did feel a bit... off at times. Don't get me wrong, over all it was an excellent book. I'm VERY happy AIL is still OK and that you are contiunuing it. I may write more thoughts when I'm not so swamped with them.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

I don't know. I'll take it at face value on that one :) Remus seemed pretty clueless the whole way through- although I do agree it was largely becuase he had his own problems.

It's plausible, but I don't think it's the real reason. Somehow, I think Remus would actually tell Tonks that. Why wouldn't he, really? So... nah. Not biting. :)

Given JKR's satirical tendencies, though, I strongly suspect her of wanting to make fun of all the fanon shipping. Also, I think she wanted to get all the romance stuff out of the way before the great showdown in Book 7; I don't expect much more shipping from now on.

I REALLY like your second point. I think she was making more fun of the way teenagers tend to date than the fandom in this, but I agree with part 2. You can't write teenagers and not address hormones, and there were too many unanswered questions to do much shipping in book 7.

lso, it seems she doesn't quite know what to do with all these interesting characters she's created.

I DEFINITELY got this impression, and writing Accidentally in Love, I totally understand it! I mean, I always want to put in more of certain characters, and I feel like when you focus in on that one plot- which you have to do eventually!- certain characters get brushed by the wayside. I missed some of the characters badly (Neville!!!!!!), but I definitely understand the frustration she must feel here!