HP POA Question

[lls_mutant]

First of all, thanks to everyone responding on my earlier post today that had nothing to do with fandom.

Second. Okay. Azkaban is to the North of Scotland, according to the Lexicon, right? So why/how did Sirius traipse ALL THE WAY DOWN TO LITTLE WHINGING to see Harry before going BACK TO THE NORTH OF SCOTLAND? I mean, I came up with what I consider a VERY reasonable explanation, but JKR, you make my head hurt.

Comments

[magic-at-mungos.livejournal.com]

Because as well as not being able to do maths, clearly geography isn't JK's strong point either? [/tongue in cheek]

[ignipes.livejournal.com]

Because crazy earth logic has no place in the HP series. ;)

I think it would be funny if everybody agreed to blame JKR's mistakes on the characters -- like, nobody knows how old the Weasley children are because Molly is bad at math and can't remember when they were born, and Sirius did all that traveling because he's terrible at geography and didn't know which way to go.

[pinkfinity.livejournal.com]

Mileage is maths, right?

'Nuf said.

[pinkfinity.livejournal.com]

Omg, this would make a great challenge! May I gack it for FictionAlley's winter break project?

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

Does it say anywhere that he walked all that way? I don't see any reason why he couldn't have Apparated, appart from the risk of being spotted while in human form -- but if he traveled at night and chose Apparation points that were generally deserted, I'd guess that risk would be minimal.

[paddystar.livejournal.com]

Hehe, that's exactly what I thought too. But then again, it does seem a bit simple a solution to a problem that makes Lissa's head hurt that much. :p

[topaz7.livejournal.com]

I had the same thought, although..did he have a wand, and if so, how did he get it?

This is hurting my head. *whinges*

[thistlerose.livejournal.com]

Why = he loves the kid. Or remembers loving him as a baby, anyway.

How = Britain isn't THAT big, really. And dogs can cover a lot of ground in a short while. He could also have stowed away on the backs of trucks, or whatever.

That's one of the things I like to bring up when people are slagging off Sirius. It's a LONG trip and it was COMPLETELY out of his way. He didn't HAVE to do it, but he WANTED to see his godson.

[aome.livejournal.com]

I also vote Apparating.

Also, OT: your card came today. Thanks!

[ignipes.livejournal.com]

Of course. :)

[nassima.livejournal.com]

I would agree with thistlerose here.

And anyway, Sirius would have had no reason to go to Hogwarts before september, and the fact that he crossed the whole of Britain is another proof of the way he'll do anything for the ones he loves :)

Plus we don't know how many time there was between Sirius' escape and the Muggles knowing it/telling it in the news. There could be plenty of time for Sirius to travel -he could have walked, jumped into trucks, "borrowed" the Floo of some absent wizard...

[jlarinda.livejournal.com]

Wouldn't the Ministry know if he Apparated? Plus, you need a wand to do so...

[shaggydogstail.livejournal.com]

Um, I'm not sure why the Lexicon says Azkaban is North of Scotland. I thought JKR just said it was in the North Sea. If it was North of Scotland, why would the Dementors be getting on a train travelling from London to Hogsmeade? *puzzles*

The North Sea reaches down the East coast of Britain, so I suppose technically Azkaban could be as far South as the English Channel, although I tend to think it is further North, based on the fact that the train had been travelling for a while when the Dementors boarded it. (I've always assumed it was off the coast of Northern England/Southern Scotland.)

Anyway, that would still mean Sirius had to travel South to Surrey before he went North to Hogwarts. It makes sense to me that he'd do this, as it's during the summer holidays, so he might has well go to see Harry as hang around Hogwarts before the kids get back to school. The phrasing is a bit odd, as the way Sirius says it makes it sound like a minor detour, rather than travelling in the opposite direction. Hmm, unless he had somewhere else he needed to go in the South of England before he went to Hogwarts? Can't think what that would be, though. Or Azkaban really could be in the English Channel. *shrugs*

[gehayi.livejournal.com]

I think he was trying to put as much as space as possible between himself and Azkaban. I can't blame him for that. It was also probably a way of trying to throw off both the Dementors and the Muggle police. Plus, he loves Harry. Going to see Harry was a way of assuring himself that Harry was all right, and a means of protecting Harry if he wasn't.

[shaggydogstail.livejournal.com]

OK, I found these quotes from JKR about the location of Azkaban on QQQ:

Q. Where is Azkaban?

A. In the north of the North Sea. A very cold sea.

Q.Is the island that Azkaban is on located at the southern end of the U.K. since Black had to pass the Dursley's place on his way to Hogwarts?

A. No, he didn't have to pass the Dursley's place. He just wanted to.

Which don't exactly narrow it down that much! :D

[kuggerboy.livejournal.com]

Distance isn't really an issue in the WW. And yeah, Sirius' first priority was to protect Harry. I don't see why he wouldn't go to Little Whinging, even if he was a one-legged Muggle. It's not that far, he hasn't seen his godson in 12 years, and Harry is all he has left of James. A Sirius that doesn't go straight to Harry no matter where Harry is...would be a different person. Meh.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Apparently not, given that he said something about "before I began my journey North"!

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

It was actually REALLY easy to come up with a simple reason why Azkaban is the North and Sirius started in the South, but yeah. I had to come up with it. It really doesn't make sense. ::Sigh:: Ah well!

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

True enough!!!! And that icon is SO perfect :)

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Maybe I've read too much Pern, but one of the rules I've always had about Apparating is you have to know exactly where you're Apparating -to-. If there's any doubt about your coordinates, it could be a bad thing- like you could end up Apparating into someone's living room. That was how I discounted Apparating- Sirius didn't trust his own mind, and knew his knowledge of England was based on 12 years ago, and it could have changed. He might think the point he was Apparating to was in the middle of an open field and then find out it was in a new grocery store or something. Ooops! And he does refer to "starting his journey north", which makes me think he did walk all the way.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

See, that part of the why I can understand. But there were two things:

1.) He knew Harry was coming to Hogwarts, which was up closer, and

2.) JKR implies through Sirius's speech that it was a small detour. He says he had to see Harry before he started his journey North. Makes sense from an emotional perspective, but not from a geographical one. (The truth is I don't think JKR ever intended us to analyze it so closely, just like when people go on about how the full moon wasn't over Christmas during 1993. But....)

And yeah, the stowaway idea is where I'm headed, only I've got him on a boat for a bit :)

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

The travel part is easy. It's just dealing with that one sentence about wanting to see Harry before he began his journey north. It's even easy to get around, it's just annoying. ::sigh:: Ah well! This is JKR, after all ;)

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Well, there's a really easy way around it (Sirius hops on a boat to avoid detection and ends up in the South of Britian), but it's the bit about him making it sound like a minor detour. The Lexicon is generally pretty accurate, so I'm taking their word for the whereabouts of Azkaban, but...

I think JKR just likes to make my head hurt :)

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

That's actually a large part of my rationale- get AWAY from Azkaban, because they would be looking for him! Stick him on a boat and have him get off in the South, and hey- then it IS a minor detour. Tada! :)

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Distance technically isn't, but it's implied he didn't Apperate. He says (and this is the quote that givs me trouble) he went to see Harry before he began the journey north. That makes it sound like he did let the distance matter.

But it's easy enough to work out. Just frustrating to have JKR make my head hurt like that!

[shaggydogstail.livejournal.com]

I used to take the Lexicon's word on everything, but I've been noticing inaccuracies in it recently, and that was before the Regulus' middle name debacle. (The Marauders year of birth is definitely wrong.)

Having said that, I've just been looking at the Lexicon's explaination for this, and I rather like it (I couldn't find any reference to Azkaban being north of Scotland, just in the North, though). They say:

'That seems odd to us Muggles, but wizard ideas of "shortest route" don't necessarily use the kind of geometry we Muggles take for granted. The Knight Bus, for example, seems to move between destinations almost in alphabetical order.'

It's a good analogy, as there doesn't seem to be any geographical sense to the Knight Bus journeys.

Another thing I thought of is that Sirius says he swam to the mainland, but not specifically the British mainland. I'd assumed he meant Scotland, but he might actually have swum to Norway or Denmark. Since he was avoiding the British MoM, he may well have travelled mostly outside of the British mainland, travelling down through Germany, Belguim and France, across the Channel Islands, then over to Ireland before getting to Scotland via Ireland. (This would fit in with more common boat trips than North Scotland-South England as well.) Using this circuitous route, going to Surrey wouldn't be such a major detour as it at first seems.

[thistlerose.livejournal.com]

I guess he had a better chance of catching Harry alone on Privet Drive than at Hogwarts. There'd have been fewer people guarding him at his aunt and uncle's.

Maybe to Sirius is didn't seem like such a huge distance. He'd been locked up for so many years, weak as he was, it must have been such a relief just to RUN. Plus, as I've said, Britain is really quite a small country. :)

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

As far as we know, Apparation doesn't require a wand. At least, I can't remember any being mentioned in the Apparation lessons.

[topaz7.livejournal.com]

OK, my head thanks you for this! ;)

[midnitemaraud-r.livejournal.com]

Another thing I thought of is that Sirius says he swam to the mainland, but not specifically the British mainland. I'd assumed he meant Scotland, but he might actually have swum to Norway or Denmark. Since he was avoiding the British MoM, he may well have travelled mostly outside of the British mainland, travelling down through Germany, Belguim and France

Oooh - I like this idea! I don't think he'd go to Ireland, but the rest of it could work. If Azkaban is really far north, he could have swam to Norway, made his way to Denmark, and then down through Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium and then to France and crossed over at Calais on a "Muggle" ferry. (as this was before the tunnel was built). And he might have even stowed away on a ship or even a truck down most of the mainland coast so he didn't have to travel by foot the whole way.

That makes more sense to me than his coming ashore in Northern Scotland or even Northern England.