Random HP Thoughts

[lls_mutant]

I've always hated the ship Sirius/Dorcas Meadowes, just because I despise the reasoning "they were standing next to each other in the picture! Maybe something was going on!" I've also hated the logic that Remus was standing next to someone else, so the others weren't speaking to him. (If they weren't speaking to him much, how was he getting the information to be suspected of being the spy?) So when I started writing AIL, I came up with plausible reasons for why they might be standing where they were. I had Remus work for Caradoc Dearborn (the fact he disappeared neatly left him without references, thus rendering his work experience useless in terms of getting another job), and Dorcas Meadowes was an old woman who was one of Sirius's tutors.

Question: was I wrong about the old woman part?

In HBP, we learn that Professor Meadowes is retiring from the DADA position that Voldemort so covets. Same Ms. Meadowes? Wouldn't surprise me. And wouldn't a DADA prof be powerful enough that Voldie would kill her himself? And when he did, did he make a horcrux, especially since there's a connection with him and the DADA position?

Discuss :)

Also: Plot bunnies up for adoption. I may write them someday, but who am I kidding on time?

1.) Arthur Weasley having to take his wand from his grandmother because she's got Alzhemers and is dangerous with it.

2.) Remus/Sirius, post-Azkaban, and Remus actually breaks out a condom. (I somehow doubt news of AIDS reached Sirius in Azkaban.)

3.) Sirius takes the DADA position in 1981 (or 1980). Wouldn't THAT be a lovely little explanation as to why he ended up in Azkaban????

Comments

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

It isn't Professor Meadowes, it's Professor Merrythought. Galatea Merrythought.

And I like Sirius / Dorcas, mostly because I like the Dorcas in my head and because lareinenoire writes it so brilliantly, and I know perfectly well that standing next to each other in a photograph doesn't make it canon. It just makes me happy to think he had a bit of fun before getting sent to Azkaban, the same way Sirius / Remus, presumably, makes you happy. (And I do think the photo is likely to provide a few hints about the group dynamics, though not necessarily relationship-related ones. After all, it's a carefully constructed fictional document, not a real one where the placement of characters might indeed be haphazard or random, and JKR presumably had a reason for "showing" it to us.)

[jlarinda.livejournal.com]

I love the plot bunnies! Specially the third one.
And I hope someone writes the first one, since you've been mentioning it for so long.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Darn. I thought it was a pretty brilliant theory, myself. :P Oh well! One of these days I actually need to reread HBP. (Except I'm not willing to put aside Game of Thrones during my little bit of reading time!)

Yeah, "I like it because I read a good fic and it makes me happy" is a reason I'm perfectly happy to accept. It's the "they were standing next to each other in a picture!" thing that just makes me want to puke. Like the Remus/Tonks carrying-a-trunk thing. Or the Sirius/Remus hugged thing, to lampoon one from my own ship. And I agree. It's nice to think Sirius had some fun and happiness before Azkaban. That's actually why I started shipping Sirius/Remus- it was nice to think they both had some happiness during OotP.

And I also just don't like the name Dorcas.

As for the picture dynamics, the reason I grumble about the "Lupin was estranged" argument is because Sirius was SMART. If Remus was so estranged from the rest of their little group by the time the picture was taken (which had to have been several months before Voldie's fall), then how was he a plausible spy? It also bugs me when it's used as an anti-shipping argument, because we have pictures with groups where Howard and I aren't standing together. (and we're an acknowledged relationship.) My thought was always that the big thing about that picture was to show just how many people died, and to emphasize Voldemort's power without killing off too many characters that we know. Although I'd be willing to believe that there's other dynamics there as well. I just don't really like the shipping ones (of any sort), or the Lupin-rift one (even though that one's more plausible to me.)

Plus, I got sick of Remus/hot!Caradoc Dearborn (which does pop up in R/S fics), and just wanted to be a rebel. So Caradoc Dearborn ended up an older, pudgy, white-haired, green-eyed (and bug-eyed) scientist type with an excessive curiousity, no concept of personal boundries and space, and inadvertantly based on one of my bosses. And Alastor Moody's best friend. (I really need to write the adventures of Moody and Dearborn one of these days.)

Okay. I've babbled enough. Sorry about that!

[brieza.livejournal.com]

I missed the reference to Dorcas Meadows in HBP.

#3 is a wonderful plot bunny, but I'm a reader of HP-fanfic, not a writer. (My writing tends to be original stuff.)

One thing that I really liked in AIL, was the spontaneaty that you put into the photograph and Moody's response to it, and that he kept it. Actually, while I love AIL as a whole, one of my favorite parts of it is Moody's and Caradoc's friendship.

You keep mentioning recently about your lack of a beta. Are you interested in one?

[ignipes.livejournal.com]

I think it's funny that everybody feels like they have to come up with reasons and relationships to explain the way Moody lists the names in that photo, especially considering that Moody orders the people in the photo to move around so he can name them all. Grasping for symbolism is fun for the whole family!

Dorcas Meadows was a middle-aged, introverted loner who liked horses better than people and was only in the Order because she knew Tom Riddle in school. And when she died, there were zombies. Anybody who says otherwise is LYING. ;)

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

It also bugs me when it's used as an anti-shipping argument, because we have pictures with groups where Howard and I aren't standing together. (and we're an acknowledged relationship.)

But that's exactly why fictional documents constructed for a specific, literary purpose are different from real documents -- details that are completely haphazard in real life can and do have meaning in literature.

As for the picture dynamics, the reason I grumble about the "Lupin was estranged" argument is because Sirius was SMART. If Remus was so estranged from the rest of their little group by the time the picture was taken (which had to have been several months before Voldie's fall), then how was he a plausible spy?

Well, I think there's a difference between "interpersonal dynamics that would be obvious to the people in the photograph" and "symbolism that is invisible to the people in the photograph at the time, but obvious to the reader on a meta-level," and both are definitely present in that photo. An example of the first type of situation is the fact that Frank and Alice Longbottom are pictured together because they're married, something that both the readers and the characters know. The fact that Peter is pictured sitting between James and Lily, when we know he's going to be the one who drives a wedge into the group and puts a premature end to their marriage, is a textbook example of the second.

So, to me at least, it's plausible that JKR IS suggesting that Remus isn't on the same page as the rest of them -- that the miscommunication and suspicions that led them to suspect him as a spy have already started -- even if neither he nor the others would have said he was "estranged from the group" at that time.

Or it could indeed be random, as some details in the photo certainly are -- I don't think JKR was suggesting that the order is really a triumvirate with Moody, Dumbledore, and Dedalus Diggle in charge, for instance.

[medicinal-mirth.livejournal.com]

And I also just don't like the name Dorcas.

She probably didn't like it much either. I'd rather be a Nymphadora than a Dorcas. Even the possibility of a decent nickname is nil -- Dor? or Dorc? So wrong.

2.) Remus/Sirius, post-Azkaban, and Remus actually breaks out a condom. (I somehow doubt news of AIDS reached Sirius in Azkaban.)

I've actually been thinking about something like that, but been a bit scared of it, because I can see it being heavy on the dialogue. I don't think that's my strongest point. But it's tempting.

[kyasuriin.livejournal.com]

ooh, interesting theory!

1. yes!
2. yes!
3. yes! yes! yes!

write them allllllllll!! *grin*

[maglors-finch.livejournal.com]

I'm not willing to put aside Game of Thrones during my little bit of reading time!

Do you like it so far? Right now, I'm translating the most recent installment in the Ice and Fire series, and I'm always curious to know what people think of the books.

As for Dorcas, the name (taken from the Acts of the Apostles) means `gazelle'; if JKR knew this, the woman is probably not meant to be a middle-aged spinster. Not that I'm particularly fond of the ship, and even if you see Sirius as straight, they can hardly have been in anything resembling a relationship. When you're too busy being a rebel to marry, as JKR has said about Sirius, you're not likely to have a girlfriend either.

[maglors-finch.livejournal.com]

Forgot to comment on the plotbunnies. I love #3!!!

[ignipes.livejournal.com]

One of these days I actually need to reread HBP. (Except I'm not willing to put aside Game of Thrones during my little bit of reading time!)

Very wise decision. *nods approvingly*

Besides, after reading GoT, an HBP reread is bound to be disappointing. No way around it, I'm afraid. :)

[marauderthesn.livejournal.com]

Yeah, as someone else said, it's Merrythought and not Meadowes. I don't think Dorcas Meadowes has a canon age.

My thing with Remus/Sirius and condoms post-Azkaban is, I don't think Remus slept with that many people while Sirius was in Azkaban, and I think that by the time he and Sirius had sex again, Remus hadn't slept with anyone for at least a couple of years and had definitely tested HIV-.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

It's plausible, I suppose. Actually, it's very plausible that JKR did it on purpose. I just don't like the concept, because to me, it doesn't make sense that Remus was growing so distant at that point as people would like to believe, and Sirius still suspected him of being the spy.

Which, of course, is arguing two seperate things. You're coming at it from the angle of literary symbolism, I'm coming at it from the angle of MWPP-obsessed plot-logic :) In a plot manner, it doesn't make sense to me for Remus to be "estranged" at that point. It just doesn't work- Sirius is too smart for that. (However, Sirius as a character tends to be whatever the plot calls for.) I also think that Sirius didn't want to suspect Remus- he had to. If there was any other logical (or even not-as-logical) suspicion, I'm sure he would have exhausted that. But yeah- that's not the same thing.

I do see what you're saying- that it might actually have been intentional on JKR's part. It's one of those things we won't know until the seventh book- and even after, we may not know. (I sometimes suspect that the MWPP were not as important as some of us would like to think. Then at other times I think that their history and Voldemort's history are going to collide in Book 7.) Ah well. I just get annoyed when people use it as strong, factual evidence as opposed to suggestive evidence.

I don't think JKR was suggesting that the order is really a triumvirate with Moody, Dumbledore, and Dedalus Diggle in charge, for instance.

But it would make a really, really interesting story! :)

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Re: Game of Thrones: I LOVE it. It's fantastic.

And yeah- I don't think Sirius had a girlfriend. If he did, she wasn't anyone serious. JKR was pretty explicit about that- that he didn't have time for a girlfriend. (I still love the theory that he feared women anyway because of his mother.) But I still don't like the name Dorcas :)

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

I missed the reference to Dorcas Meadows in HBP.

That's because I got the name wrong :) Oops.

one of my favorite parts of it is Moody's and Caradoc's friendship.

Thanks :) That's one of my favorite parts as well, and one day I want to write some of Moody and Caradoc's adventures, because I think they were probably a lot of fun as young men. I've had a lot of fun with those two, and it HURT to kill of Caradoc.

Stupid canon.

As for the beta, what seems to be working for AIL is that people happen to point out typos and whatnot. The truth is, I just don't have the interest in the editing for fanfic. If I want to seriously edit, I've got another project that has top editing priority, and when I have the patience for it, that's what gets done. So that's why I rarely use a beta, unless it's flat-out required. I know I should, and I've been caught on details before, but AIL is SO freaking long....

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

heh. Exactly. :)

And of course Dorcas is. :) Just like Caradoc Dearborn is an older, pudgy, white-haired, bug-eyed scientist with an insatiable curiousity and no concept of personal boundries! :)

[kanella.livejournal.com]

I've also hated the logic that Remus was standing next to someone else, so the others weren't speaking to him. (If they weren't speaking to him much, how was he getting the information to be suspected of being the spy?)

UGH, word. This is such a big annoyance of mine. There's no way Dumbledore was announcing where the Potters were hiding out at regular Order meetings. It was privileged information, which is why Dumbledore thought that somebody "close to the Potters" was leaking it. There's no way Remus could have been the spy unless he was close enough to the Potters to be privy to that information. Since Sirius suspected him (largely by default, I suspect), he must have been close enough to James and Lily to justify their telling him where they would be hiding out. I think that there was some distance between all the members of the group, but one imposed by the stress of the war and the general lack of time that tends to separate school friends from one another when they get into adulthood. I don't think that it was distance that allowed Sirius to suspect Remus - it was the fact that Remus is a private person to begin with, and one that is well-trained in keeping secrets (and, like I said, default. Sirius all but admitted that in the Shrieking Shack).

Also, the way the people in the photo are moving (the people in the back moving to the front and vice-versa), I think it's also possible that Remus was standing right behind the others.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Heh. When we were coming up for a name with Toby, several people asked if it was going to be Harry or something HP-related. I actually said flat-out NO, because I can't stand JKR's taste in nomenclature. Her names are either very old-fashioned, or very... odd. (I love Sirius. On paper. I would NEVER be that cruel to a child. (A dog, on the other hand...)) Needless to say, you probably heard me scream when I hit the bit about Tobias Snape :)

But yeah. If I was Ms. Meadowes, I'd be after a nickname like Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot, or Prongs. Or just go by Meadowes.

I'd LOVE to see something like that. I think you should try it- especially since you handle psychology well. Besides, you can't improve at dialogue unless you practice... >:)

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Poop. I liked that theory :)

And yeah- that's the thing you have to get around for Remus- you have to be willing to accept that Remus had a slut phase. I can generally make it work either way, but the other thing I'm not sure on is Britain's health care system. Would Remus have to pay to be tested? Or could it be done for free? If he would have to pay, easy way to avoid him being tested. If it could be done for free, I just can't see why he wouldn't.

But it would still be interesting from Sirius's perspective :)

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Exactly, to everything you said! Plus...

Remus was the logical default because he may have had motivation- i.e., werewolf rights.

AND (this is my current favorite.)

Sirius was willing to kill Peter for betraying the Potters. Plus, he was impulsive. If he was sure that Remus was the spy, wouldn't he have confronted him? Remus didn't seem to be sure that Sirius thought he was the spy- although it didn't seem to take much thought to figure it out. Remus also seemed to understand. But if Sirius was suspecting Remus for so long, why didn't he out-and-out say something? (Although it's possible he wasn't suspecting anyone at that point. But I still like that line of reasoning. Sirius was in no way sure that Remus was the spy. Plus, the advantage of his little plan was this: if Remus was the spy, it's confirmed and he's stopped. If Remus WASN'T the spy, then he never had to know about the switch or why Sirius proposed it, and no harm done. Seems perfect, right? Unless you forget about Peter!)

? for you...

[loveable-pads.livejournal.com]

This is something that I have been wanting to ask you for some time now. After reading your AIL Chapter 10, and your reasoning for adding more Regulus (HPB & finding out he did have sustinance), here is my question...

Would you have written DTF any differently in the Sirius, Regulus aspect had you read HBP before writing it?

You see, I've always felt since I read the chapter in OTP when Sirius was speaking of his brother to Harry, that there was a deep love and saddness there. Like he had always tried to reach out to his brother and they were close before Sirius started Hogwarts and left him behind. I feel like they were close but once Sirius left home for school his parents' influence took over and Regulus became a changed person. I believe he may have always been the favored son, for whatsoever reason, but when I read OTP, I felt Sirius had a regret of some kind. Like he didn't try hard enough to make Regulus see what his parents and what he eventually started doing in league with Voldemort was wrong.

Does that make sense? So...would you have written their relationship differently? Just curious on your thoughts.

In any case, I'm working on a fic inspired by your DTF but it delves deeper into the brothers' relationship.

Now that my AU Siris ship is worthless... :P

[(Anonymous)]

Hey, I like (3)! Difficult to make it fit with no-one having told Harry about it, but then there have been bigger things people forgot to mention to him ...

Dorcas Meadowes gets one mention which says that 'Voldemort killed her personally', so basically anything goes. I also like the version in Be All My Secrets Remembered though ...

On the photo: I agree that's probably there mostly to show us the casualty count in the first war, but I also have a suspicion that one of the 'missing' members (Fenwick or Dearborn) just might turn up in Book 7.

HBP is actually growing on me on rereads, although it still feels unpolished compared to OotP. If you try to talk about "A Game of Thrones" however, I shall simply put my fingers in my ears and go LA LA LA because I've just started it and don't want spoilers. :)

[snorkackcatcher]

Oops, sorry, that was me. I hadn't noticed that I'd been logged out (the LJ changes maybe?)

[medicinal-mirth.livejournal.com]

you can't improve at dialogue unless you practice

Heh. If only. But yeah, I'm gonna try this one. It just is too intriguing an idea, and I have wondered about this for a while, because I never really did buy that Remus was celibate the entire time Sirius was in Azkaban. And he didn't need to be a slut to risk getting the virus. But God help me and anyone who reads it when I'm done, it's gonna be a lot longer than what I'm used to writing lately (already outlining it and whoa!)

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

::claps:: I'll definitely read it! And yeah- Remus didn't need to be a slut. But I can't buy he was totally celibate, either. ESPECIALLY if he was willing to sleep with men, because men are definitely better at separating sex and relationship issues. (You know, I could ALMOST believe canon!Remus was a virgin. Except I still think him sleeping with Tonks kind of messed with her mind and got them to the hospital scene :) )

Re: ? for you...

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

You know, I'm not sure, but it's a good question.

I would have kept their interaction very much the same, because they're brothers. I never got along well with my siblings when I was younger. The way I saw DTF Sirius was that he loved Regulus, but he couldn't get along with him. And because of the age difference between them, Regulus just didn't hold much interest for him. Probably what I would have done would be to include more scenes that showed Sirius did care, even if he didn't realize he did. There's a scene in Part 6 where they're talking about girls and stuff in general, and Sirius thinks he's annoyed, but the truth is he's not. (Very big brother.)

Let me know when you have your fic done though, because I would love to read it! :) Especially since there are not enough good Sirius-Regulus (non incest) fics out there. :)

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Don't worry about Game of Thrones- I'm only halfway through myself, and with the baby, I don't anticipate finishing it quickly! :)

Hey, I like (3)! Difficult to make it fit with no-one having told Harry about it, but then there have been bigger things people forgot to mention to him ...

Exactly. And if Sirius only taught for a couple of months or a year and a couple of months (because I can totally see cocky Sirius thinking he'd beat the curse), it wouldn't even really be worth mentioning to Harry. Especially when noone's bothered to tell him what his own parents did in the first place :) (Which on the one hand annoys me and on the other hand clears the way for me to finish Accidentally In Love without worrying about anyone's career being anti-canon.) It's probably not canon, but it would be fun! :) (And if I wanted to be nicer, or do something gen, I'd make Lily the one who took the DADA position, and then when she got pregnant realized she couldn't continue with it because she wanted to stay home with Harry. How's that for irony? Harry's birth resulted from Voldemort's curse! And I could deal with my own issues.)

Dorcas Meadowes gets one mention which says that 'Voldemort killed her personally', so basically anything goes. I also like the version in Be All My Secrets Remembered though ...

I do too. I like versions of those one-mention characters that don't result in them being young, hot, and somehow in love or sexually involved with one of the main characters. I did get the DADA prof part wrong, but I still like her as Sirius's former tutor :)

I also have a suspicion that one of the 'missing' members (Fenwick or Dearborn) just might turn up in Book 7.

I don't think Fenwick- they found pieces of him. (Of course, they found Peter's finger, too.) But I've wondered about Dearborn. The only reason I think he might not is he wasn't mentioned at all in Book 6, and I think JKR made sure to drop some of the more important names. (Of course, Sirius wasn't mentioned at all in Book 2.) What would be really creepy is if Dearborn turned up as an Inferni. (Which (shhh) is something I am so going to write!) At least Harry's parents are buried and they didn't lurch out of the marshes there at him!

[snorkackcatcher]

I'm fairly sure that at the time it would have been free, or at least very low cost (still is, I think). I'm not sure the plotline works though, as I have a feeling HIV is the sort of thing that is probably supposed to be controllable or curable magically in the HPverse. Also he'd probably need to fake some medical records, of course. :)

[snorkackcatcher]

Lily as DADA teacher? Another intriguing idea!

I like versions of those one-mention characters that don't result in them being young, hot, and somehow in love or sexually involved with one of the main characters.

:;coughs awkwardly:: Actually, in BAMSR Dorcas is young, hot, and involved with Sirius -- it's the story a_t_rain mentioned! Very good though.

I don't think Fenwick- they found pieces of him.

Probably not, although I've seen one good chaptered story which has him turning up (with terrible injuries) as a premise -- I'm not sure whether to rec it by name as it's kind of the key plot twist. :) (It's not by one of your flist, although it is by a Wolfstarite.)

[BTW - Damn, this black-on-dark-blue colour scheme is hard to make out. :) ]

[medicinal-mirth.livejournal.com]

You know, it may sound odd, but I actually have an easier time picturing Sirius as a virgin than Remus. It's too early in the morning for me to be terribly coherent on the subject, but straight or gay or bi -- I could see him having severe issues both sexually and emotionally after growing up in that madhouse of a home. I know a lot of people write him as either promiscuous or very comfortable with sexuality, but I could easily see it being quite the opposite.

As for Remus, oh yeah, he has issues of his own, but I actually can see those issues lending themselves to riskier sexual behavior. It's pretty much the only area he could be risky in -- no attachments if he didn't want them, a little time to let go of everything that weighs him down, a release from having to "behave" pretty much the rest of the time.

Like I said -- it's too early in the morning, but ... off for more coffee.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Brain dead... BAMSR? Never mind. Be All My Secrets Remembered. Sorry. I was actually thinking of ignipes version of Dorcas in Much as She Had Lived.

I have a very hard time making Sirius date much. I can do him with Remus because I can make him be totally stupid about it in that he doesn't realize what he's really getting into, but I have a hard time putting him with girls much, for some reason. He just strikes me as romantically emotionally inaccessible much. Which is funny, given that he's half of my OTP, but not so much, because I don't write them very fluffy or sweet or even very self-aware. :P

Haven't heard that particular fic that I can remember, but I've read so many... which fic is it?

And odd that you're getting black on dark blue. My journal has a light color on dark blue on my computer. Thanks for the heads up though- I've been meaning to play with the layout anyway in a few days.

I actually have a hard time with

[snorkackcatcher]

Haven't heard that particular fic that I can remember, but I've read so many... which fic is it?

It's [A Surfeit of Wands by Lazy_neutrino] (spoiler tagged just in case!)

And odd that you're getting black on dark blue. My journal has a light color on dark blue on my computer

Sorry -- I mean the link texts and the text on the comment posting form are black on dark blue (the main journal is pale blue on dark blue which works OK).

[medicinal-mirth.livejournal.com]

Just thought I'd let you know that I finished it. :S I'm happy with it, though of course there are always things I think I could tweak into oblivion. Anyway, if and when you have time ...

Here it is.

Re: ? for you...

[loveable-pads.livejournal.com]

Hello again,

I don't know if you'll get this comment since it's hidden deep down on your page, but this is my shy little way to tell you that the first chapter of my Sirius/Regulus fic is up if you'd like to read it. It's called 'Fading Into Grey'.

I would love to know what you think, as this entire concept was born of your DTF fic.

*embarrassed smile*

Gazelle : Dorcas

[verdenia.livejournal.com]

Wow, that's so cool! [sci-fi geek-out]In Stranger In a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein, Dorcas is the thin one! (out of a staff of three secretaries for Jubal Harshaw) All of the names in that book were very carefully chosen, but I'd never looked that one up before. Fascinating! [/sci-fi]
And, translating the Ice and Fire into another language? That's sexy.

and, LLS: Great thread!