(no subject)

[lls_mutant]

First, happy birthday tin_o_biscuits! I'm still planning on writing something, but...

But.

GI bugs are back in town. Monday, when Toby and I were at eating hospital, Trevor threw up all over my mother. And when we came home, Toby refused to eat. Given how little he gets to eat at the hospital, this was Not a Good Sign. He spiked a fever that night and has thrown up like 4-5 times since. Ugh. So, we haven't been going to eating hospital. I used the opportunity to finally haul my butt to the doctor's, and yup- it's not a cold, it's a sinus infection. Lucky me.

And now, because I'm cranky and I feel like it,

Why are so many people being idiots? Okay, I admit, I went over to the Skiffy boards, and that should probably answer my question right there. But the post that is setting me off was along the lines of "don't ANY of the pilots that Athena worked with who are mutinying care that someone threatened to rape her?"

Newsflash: I am pretty sure Gaeta didn't order Gage to threaten to rape Athena. I'm quite sure he came up with that little gem all on his own. I will say he probably should have thought it could happen, but I can also understand why he didn't, with everything else he was thinking.

Newsflash #2: Gage didn't get on the loudspeaker or stand up at the Mutiny Meeting and say, "Hey guys! Guess what? I'm going to threaten to rape Athena!" So people like Racetrack, Narcho, Skulls, etc. probably didn't even know what he was planning.

Newsflash #3: If Adama had sent Gage after Athena for some reason, Gage would have done the same thing. While Gaeta is responsible in a sense for what his men do, there's still a level of personal responsibility.

Gage threatening to rape Athena was repulsive, yes. Completely and utterly. But I blame one character for that, and one alone: Gage. (Also? I get what people are saying that if this is a genderless world, why is the threat of rape something only happening to women? I'm not saying I want to see a man raped (because rape is horrible and nasty and all that), but it should be a threat to men, too.)

As far as Felix having the Sunshine boys and a whole host of other unsavory characters on his side....

Well, for one, who IS a savory character on BSG? Especially after Dee killed herself? Hoshi, I guess, but it doesn't look like Felix included any CIC people in his mutiny. Which makes sense for two reasons. One, he couldn't fully trust them, I'm sure. But two, I think this was one of the last things Felix cared about. Someone brought up the point that locking the CIC crew in the holding cell not only keeps them out of the line of violence, but means they don't have to choose a side. So when this is all over, it doesn't matter if Adama wins or Gaeta wins, the CIC guys couldn't have helped either of them. They're above reproach, and they can't (justly) be prosecuted by the victor, whoever that is. As much as I'd like it to be something more, I think we just saw Felix's promised protection of Hoshi. ::sniff:: But yeah- a lot of the good people are dead.

But two, beggars can't be choosers, and Felix didn't JUST get the bad guys. He's got Racetrack and Skulls, and while Narcho's a jerk, he's just a jerk- he's not a morally corrupt person that we've seen. And more than that, these guys were there. In Adama's crew. Yes, they turned on Adama, but they were in Adama's crew at this point. That means that if Adama had wanted a Cylon locked up, he could have easily sent them and they would have made the same point. Is Felix guilty of using them? Yeah. But is Adama basically guilty of the same thing? YES. The Sunshine Boys served both men, and unless there's something I'm missing, the threats of rape are something they're adding in on their own. I don't find Gaeta any more culpable in this case than I find Adama for keeping them around.

However, I must admit, if the Sunshine boys go out the airlock, I won't cry for a second.

I just wish I could find any spoilers about if Felix survives this week or not!

Comments

[rap541.livejournal.com]

Well, here's the easy way to defeat the logic of Felix is responsible for Gage.

The arguement is this, correct? Felix is in command and therefore he is personally responsible for the actions of all of his men and is AS guilty as the wrongdoer in question because... Felix is in command and owns all the actions of his people.

So therefore, Bill Adama is a murderer and an attempted murderer. After all Tigh, Kara, Tyrol, Seelix etc? His men. They murdered people. They attempted to murder Felix. Bill was in charge and owns their actions and therefore Bill Adama is a murderer.

For the record, no I am not absolving Gaeta of mutiny, I'm merely pointing out that the logic of blaming him for Gage being a rapist is flawed. After all, Bill Adama kept Gage the rapist on the Galactica, didn't he? If Bill Adama was so incensed by Gage the Rapist, why the hell is Gage not in the brig?

I've actually avoided the skiffy boards and twop because the logic really is that if Bill does it, its awesome and if Gaeta does it, it's murder and its a "We love X so Y is evil" arguement.

[frolicndetour.livejournal.com]

After all Tigh, Kara, Tyrol, Seelix etc?

OMG one of these things is not like the other! Kara may have tried to summarily- execute Gaeta but she didn't get brought in in time to kill anyone. *clings to those fine distinctions*

[rap541.livejournal.com]

But Gaeta is raping Sharon, correct? Kara is cutie pie doing fuck all nothing and should be held up as a saint and Gaeta is a rapist.

I know, not your real point. But why is Kara innocent? Why is Gaeta's life just something for Kara to shit on that she bears no responsiblity for harming him?

But Gaweta owns the rape of Sharon as being a fully culpable *rapist*?

Not angry with you - merely pointing out your fine distinction are only ok if its precious Kara. Gaeta was a rat bastard who deserved the emotional rape Kara put him thru on his knees, he deserved to be murdered for nothing, and his victemizers, all of them get away with it... but OH FUCK GAETA LOVES RAPING and there's NO MITIGATING CIRCUMSTNACES BECAUSE KARA IS COOL and GAETA IS JUST A SCUMBAG HOMO RAPIST WHO DESERVES TO HAVE KARA CUT OFF HIS COCK RAPIST RAPIST RAPIST!

Because Gaeta DID rape sharon when he sent Gage to get her. He did, and that is soooo rape and raping and there's NO DISTINCTIONS FOR GAETA.

Maybe Kara should get a hug and a kiss for what she did to Gaeta, since she did nothing wrong.

This rant isn't directed at you personally, Allie = but please understand that what Kara did really isn't ok simply because she wasn't allowed to go through with it. After all, Gaeta hasn't given an order to rape anyone...but that distinction really doesn't matter.

[frolicndetour.livejournal.com]

knees, he deserved to be murdered for nothing, and his victemizers, all of them get away with it... but OH FUCK GAETA LOVES RAPING and there's NO MITIGATING CIRCUMSTNACES BECAUSE KARA IS COOL and GAETA IS JUST A SCUMBAG HOMO RAPIST WHO DESERVES TO HAVE KARA CUT OFF HIS COCK RAPIST RAPIST RAPIST!

Okay, you know I'm not saying that, right? I think Gaeta has TONS of mitigating circumstances and I don't think he deserved to be airlocked at all! I just think the same is true for my precious Kara!

[rap541.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I am blowing off at the wrong person, Ally - I am sorry. I have seen one too many "Felix should be sodomized with his own fake leg" cracks that frankly, on several levels are more than just hating on a character,they're ugly and bigoted and it's unpleasant.

[frolicndetour.livejournal.com]

Oh, I replied too fast. Yeah, I totally get how you feel. Fandom sucks. *hugs*

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

After all, Bill Adama kept Gage the rapist on the Galactica, didn't he? If Bill Adama was so incensed by Gage the Rapist, why the hell is Gage not in the brig?


EXACTLY what I was trying to say :) Thank you!

And yes, your logic is much better than anything I've seen on Skiffy. I kind of enjoy the car crashes there, but at times, it does make the blood pressure rise!

[frolicndetour.livejournal.com]

Ugh. I'm sorry about the sickness issues.

Okay, I admit, I went over to the Skiffy boards, and that should probably answer my question right there.

Hee, seriously. The Skiffy boards are such a wasteland - it scares me that I share a fandom with some of those people. ;) Even some of the the posters I agree with, I still want off my side.

Yeah, despite my utterly irrational hatred of Narcho for dissing my girl - at the same time I utterly forgive Seelix for letting the marines beat the hell out of Sam, wtf Allie?! - he does have a lot of good-guys on his side. Gage might think that it's open season on Cylons time but I'm positive Gaeta never ordered that. Or would allow it if he knew. (Nor would Racetrack or many of the other pilots! I'll continue to believe this until I'm proven wrong.) And your point about how he doesn't have the luxury of turning people away is well-taken.

I SO hope the Sunshine Boys came back to die. Ron was nice enough to kill Pike so he should do this too.

I'm a complete spoiler-phobe so I can't help you there. *fingers crossed*

[(Anonymous)]

i really don't get why Narcho is seen as the ultimate arsehole, i mean he doesn't know or understand what kara is and he's unsure of where her loyalties lie. while i agree that the latter is unjustified because kara has always fought for their survival, all he did was being pissy and lashing out at her, isn't that what kara does all the time? sometimes in justified anger, sometimes just as a kneejerk reaction and sometimes for her own amusement, i dont' understand why that same behaviour in someone else is seen as totally deplorable, especially since kara can so take it...

as for gage i think he's a tool for the writers to make sure the viewers don't sympathise with the mutineers too much. it's just so obvious who we're supposed to root for. on top of it they gave skulls that ridiculous line about how laird deserved death for being dificult to work with or something like that, srly?!?

sorry about the anonymous posting, i'm just about to get my own lj but haven't got round to do it just yet, hope you don't mind me butting in...
tory

[frolicndetour.livejournal.com]

Don't mind at all! I actually agree with everything you just said. My irrational Narcho hate is mostly a joke at my own expense. *g* Because yeah, his reaction to her makes total sense! I was actually expecting to see more of that last season than we did.

Okay, but if he blows Laura out of the sky on Friday all bets are off. ;)

And I think you have a good point about Gage, and even moreso about Skulls "ladies' man!" and his totally out of nowhere trashing of Laird. The writers have a nasty habit of starting to tell these complex, multi-faceted stories and then chickening out and throwing in rapists and such. Meh. :P

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

The Skiffy mob can kill off the Sunshine Boys any way they like. I'm fine with that :)

I have a completely irrational love of Narcho these days, because I wrote the Gaeta/Narcho relationship and now I really like it :) And I'm finding I'm actually disliking Adama more and more for his treatment of Gaeta, even if it's a small facet of his character- so I get the irrational hatred bit :)

I should know better than to go near boards like Skiffy. But they are good for a laugh!

[falafel-musings.livejournal.com]

I agree that all these people were in Adama's crew too and beggers can't be choosers for either commander. I also agree that Felix sending Hoshi to the Brig was his act of protecting him, which also suggests that the other characters might have been taken to the Brig for protective reasons. I hope Gaeta's intentions become clearer next episode, because if he was planning to kill Adama he would have done it already.

I just wish I could find any spoilers about if Felix survives this week or not!

I wish that too. My gut feeling says that he will die. If he does die it seems certain it will be an execution following his talk with Gaius. Which makes me queasy. If they execute Felix I don't think the character will have any peace or redemption. Especially if Gaius/Felix end up talking about the whisper. If that's the case, we'll have a scene focusing on Felix's failings, his torment, before he pays the ultimate price. It's too merciless for me. I hope the writers have more sympathy for Felix. But we still have AJ saying he survives till ep18 at least. He could have been lying to cover for spoilers but it didn't sound that way. Either way, I think next weeks will be the episode AJ is referencing as the pinnacle of Felix Gaeta. He seems to feel positive about it so I hope it isn't just because he loves the tragedy. "Good things" for Gaeta indeed.

I can't be bothered with the morons on the Sciffy forums. There's far too many hateful comments about how they want to sodimise Felix with his own false leg. They are so morally outraged by the Sunshine boys, but they just love the idea of physically abusing a disabled homosexual in a way that is most degrading to that minority group. Idiots.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

I can see Felix wanting Adama tried. There is a revenge motive, and I think Felix wants Adama to know EXACTLY why he's being executed. But I can also see Felix just wanting Adama locked up until they leave the Cylons and find a home. Then I can see his plan having Adama let out of custody on the opposite side of the planet from him :)

I do agree that there needs to be some redemption for Felix. That's kind of why I think he might survive. ::clinging to hope:: I also think Zarek WILL die, so that increases Gaeta's odds a bit. And the fact they split... I don't know. (Is it crazy that I'm now hoping, just a little bit- that the Gaeta/Caprica Six line is actually right? :) Just to keep him living?)

The only thing I worry about with the episode 18 stuff is that it's possible things got moved around in editing, and what was episode 18 then is episode whatever we're on now. (Plus, I can't figure out the numbering system.) But I can really see either way happening (or head!Gaeta- I know it's been a joke, but maybe....)... spoilers now please!!!!!!

[falafel-musings.livejournal.com]

I find Gaetas "people must answer for what they have done" obsession a little disturbing. It feels a symptom of his ordeal with the Circle. Gaeta was judged in such a harsh merciless way so now he has been conditioned into thinking that this is how justice works. He's like a dog who has been kicked too many times that now he has become vicious and mistrustful of everyone. What scares me about the cell scene from the preview is he sounds like Seelix.

The only forms of redemption I can imagine for Felix are a) simply surrendering when he decides things have gone too far; there was forgiveness for the marine who surrendered, b) I really want there to be a problem with the cylon technology, like Cavil shows up and he can hack it. That would actually mean something good came out of the mutiny, because Gaeta delayed installing the new FTLs. Otherwise it's going to be very one-sided. A big angry violent mess over nothing.

If AJ is telling the truth in the IGN interview then I'd say Gaeta lives, because they are specifically taking in terms of Gaetas survival. If you count Razor then he survives till ep 16 but that's still two more eps. I don't know; I hate the thought of him dying now just because it'll satisfy the hateful mob on Sciffy.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

I think by 11:00 on Friday we'll have a better idea. My gut tells me if Felix survives this episode, he'll go a lot longer. If Adama doesn't execute him immediately, he's got a much bigger chance of going soft. And Romo Lampkin is due to come back. I wonder what will happen with him.

I was thinking that about the preview, too. It's sad and scary. ::sniff:: That poor guy has just fallen so, so, so hard. I really hope Adama gets it at some point.

I can see a few other forms of redemption for Gaeta: 1.) he takes out Zarek, 2.) he somehow saves Adama, 3.) someone like Tigh or Lee takes his case up enough to get Adama to cool down. Or even Baltar :) I would LOVE it if he was right about the FTLs, too. That would be SO awesome. And maybe he will be, given that we know Boomer comes back. Maybe that's how she traced them or something.

I agree- I don't want him to die right now to satisfy the mob. I'm willing to toss Zarek to them, because I think Zarek deserves it more, but not Gaeta. ::hugs Gaeta:: And they can have the Sunshine boys completely.

[falafel-musings.livejournal.com]

I'm actually wondering if Romo is going to interact with Felix next episode. I don't think he'll be on Felix's side...more likely to remind him of his perjury. Which isn't good. I fear Felix could get completely demonised in this episode so the audience accepts Adama executing him. I just wish I knew what to expect. At this rate Zarek is probably going to get a more heroic exit if he kamakazis into Cavils basestar. Of course if he tries to take out the Rebel basestar, Felix could take him out with the Galactica. But I really fear this whole episode is going to be about Felix trying to get Adama executed, getting foiled and then being executed himself. Sciffy would love it.

[aome.livejournal.com]

Ugh. I'm so sorry for the returning icky germs. :P

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Thanks. They were miserable today. I lost count of the number of baths. ::Sigh::

Hope things are going better than that for you guys! (I've been bad about keeping up being sick :P )

[weissman.livejournal.com]

In the military the commander can ultimately be held responsible in court for the actions of those he commands, there is also personal responsibility and lawful and unlawful orders to take into account.

That being said, Felix is a fool, Zarek is a manipulative nut and people like Race Track are just plain stupid.