Thoughts on Parallels and Love in Fiction
Jan. 18th, 2006 11:44 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
lls_mutantI've been meaning to write this down for a bit, because I'm trying to think of what attracts me to romances in fiction so I can flesh out aspects of a fantasy novel type thing that's still a swirling vapor mist in my head. But I also wanted to do another FAP rant... well, not rant. But a comment. So cut for your convenience, we have...
I was reading over on the Can't Stand Lupin/Tonks thread at FAP, and came across a comment about how Lupin's lycanthropy is obviously a metaphor for AIDS, and how that serves as proof he's gay. I've seen this comment in many, many places, and I've been wanting to say a lot about that for a while now.
Personally, I love the idea that lycanthropy is a metaphor for AIDS. There are a lot of similarities, and a lot of ways the parallel works.
1.) Both lycanthropy and AIDS are spread by very specific methods. AIDS can only be contracted via the exchange of bodily fluids, and lycanthropy can only be contracted via a bite by a werewolf on a full moon night. That's it. Handshakes, kissing, using the same toilet, etc. do not spread either condition.
2.) Despite the fact that these two conditions can only be spread by such specific methods, the general populace is terrified of both the condition and those that have them. Prejudice largely born of fear is rampant.
3.) And people have a good reason to be afraid of both. Both are painful conditions that have no cure.
4.) Although there is no cure, there are measures that victims of both can take to ensure that they do not spread the condition. However, they are not fail-safe, and failure can be catastrophic.
However, the parallel between AIDS and lycanthropy only stretches so far. Why? Because Remus Lupin is a werewolf, not an AIDS victim, and he has a part to play that is both directly related to his lycanthropy and directly related to Harry's story. There's also the matter of authorial intent. J.K. Rowling did state that yes, she was playing with chronic illness when she created Lupin. However, she was playing with how the world percieves those who are chronically ill, not the illness itself. As Rowling's mother had M.S., it seems logical that if she did use a disease as a model or had a specific condition in mind, that would be it.
But let's go a little further in this rant. Another disturbing trend I notice is that people in the fandom automatically equate AIDS and homosexuality. Um, newsflash, fangirls. Straight people get AIDS as well. The time when AIDS was a "gay disease" is long past. I mean, think about it. The reason it DID spread so prominantly among homosexuals is because there was no need for birth control. No matter how mpreg fics you read, it takes a man and a woman to make a baby. If you're two men or two women and you don't know about the existance of AIDS, why use a condom or other barrier method? (Well, except for those other pesky STDs.) But beyond that, AIDS is not just transmitted via sex. Drug users and blood transfusions were two other big at-risk categories. So let's say that Remus Lupin is a direct metaphor for AIDS: prior to HBP, was the method of transmission sex? Or something more like a blood transfusion? (We all get the Fenrir Greyback = child molester bit, so let's not even go there at the moment.) At any rate, my point is that even if you want to use this metaphor, it does not automatically equate to Remus Lupin being gay.
I think the metaphor works, mind you. I think it's an excellent way to begin introducing kids to the idea of prejudice against people with some sort of illness or ailment, in much the same way Chicken Run is a great way to begin introducing kids to the concept of Nazi death camps. But the metaphor is more for how the world treats someone with that sort of problem and how they can cope and have courage in the face of adversity, not for the disease itself.
Anyway.
and
On to Romance!
I've been thinking about different novels and series and stuff that I watch or read, and what I like within them in terms of romance. What attracts me to a couple, and what makes me want to read about that couple? It's not the same things I think about for coupledom in real life. I mean, I am in a great relationship, but it would make incredibly boring reading. So what makes a fascinating couple? What do I like? There's a couple things, I think.
The Epic Love
This is, by far, my favorite category. The one where I can see the big love of a lifetime. It's always fraught with some reason why the two can't be together, or some obstacle at any rate. This is best if the obstacle comes both from society and from within the couple itself. Romances like Remus and Sirius (in my head, but Harry Potter), Jack and Ennis (Brokeback Mountain), Brekke and F'nor (Anne McCaffery's Pern), A'drias and C'olby (and Adrian and Colby, for that matter ;) , and Lakesedge Pern), Satine and Christian, and Rhett and Scarlett come in. They all have some major obstacle, some big thing that has to be overcome. However, they're all CRAP at communication (although Brekke and F'nor less so). These also tend to be the romances where the flaws are the most evident. These work well as the main romance for me.
However, notice how often they end in tragedy.
The Married Couple
On the opposite end of the scale, I'm a huge fan of the married couple as well. I like stable, secure romances. Molly and Arthur and Frank and Alice (Harry Potter), Melanie and Ashley, Jed and Abby (West Wing)... even when they're having problems, you know this sort of couple will stick it through until the end. I had a hard time coming up with some of these, because they do tend to be rare in fiction. It's precisely because of what I said earlier- they don't make very interesting reading as a main plot. You can have a main character involved in a solid romance or marriage, but the plot needs to focus on something else. You can also portray an issue within that marriage or relationship. I like these stories, because so often they end up in a happy ending :) Plus, they're accessible. These tend to be your more "real life" stories.
The Cute Couple
I admit it- I'm a bit of a sucker for cute. But it can't be pure fluff. I need something dark in it too. Like James and Lily. Would I be as interested in them if they hadn't croaked? Probably not. Or Claire and Charlie on Lost (or at least, I hope that's where that's going- we're only in Season 1. DON'T TELL ME!). They're darling, but with Charlie's former heroin addiction and Claire's past... yeah. Not fluffy, even if they're cute. I also always liked... oh SHOOT. They were a pair in The Left Behind series. David and Annie, I think. (Once the authors learned a LITTLE better how to write romance.) Apocolypse also adds some nice tension. Natalie and Jeremy from Sports Night is another, although that always disturbed me because I dated a guy (hi Kelse!) who WAS Jeremy, except that he was not so into sports. But looks, mannerisms, speech patterns.... Watching Sports Night really cracked me up on that level.
The Cute Couple II, or the Fun Couple
This is a pairing that isn't necessarily as cute emotionally- they lack the innocence- but are cute in other ways, particularly their interactions with each other. The absolute top of this list is Danny and CJ from West Wing. Depending on their mood, Natalie and Jeremy fit in here too. And while I would never, ever, EVER want to read certain types of fanfic about them (![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
theregoesyamum and ignipes, don't even THINK about it), Miss Piggy and Kermit go in this category as well. It's all about the banter. There isn't necessarily a huge emotional investment in the couple, but they are fun to watch.
Okay. Enough babbling for today, and on to housework.
Goodie.
I was reading over on the Can't Stand Lupin/Tonks thread at FAP, and came across a comment about how Lupin's lycanthropy is obviously a metaphor for AIDS, and how that serves as proof he's gay. I've seen this comment in many, many places, and I've been wanting to say a lot about that for a while now.
Personally, I love the idea that lycanthropy is a metaphor for AIDS. There are a lot of similarities, and a lot of ways the parallel works.
1.) Both lycanthropy and AIDS are spread by very specific methods. AIDS can only be contracted via the exchange of bodily fluids, and lycanthropy can only be contracted via a bite by a werewolf on a full moon night. That's it. Handshakes, kissing, using the same toilet, etc. do not spread either condition.
2.) Despite the fact that these two conditions can only be spread by such specific methods, the general populace is terrified of both the condition and those that have them. Prejudice largely born of fear is rampant.
3.) And people have a good reason to be afraid of both. Both are painful conditions that have no cure.
4.) Although there is no cure, there are measures that victims of both can take to ensure that they do not spread the condition. However, they are not fail-safe, and failure can be catastrophic.
However, the parallel between AIDS and lycanthropy only stretches so far. Why? Because Remus Lupin is a werewolf, not an AIDS victim, and he has a part to play that is both directly related to his lycanthropy and directly related to Harry's story. There's also the matter of authorial intent. J.K. Rowling did state that yes, she was playing with chronic illness when she created Lupin. However, she was playing with how the world percieves those who are chronically ill, not the illness itself. As Rowling's mother had M.S., it seems logical that if she did use a disease as a model or had a specific condition in mind, that would be it.
But let's go a little further in this rant. Another disturbing trend I notice is that people in the fandom automatically equate AIDS and homosexuality. Um, newsflash, fangirls. Straight people get AIDS as well. The time when AIDS was a "gay disease" is long past. I mean, think about it. The reason it DID spread so prominantly among homosexuals is because there was no need for birth control. No matter how mpreg fics you read, it takes a man and a woman to make a baby. If you're two men or two women and you don't know about the existance of AIDS, why use a condom or other barrier method? (Well, except for those other pesky STDs.) But beyond that, AIDS is not just transmitted via sex. Drug users and blood transfusions were two other big at-risk categories. So let's say that Remus Lupin is a direct metaphor for AIDS: prior to HBP, was the method of transmission sex? Or something more like a blood transfusion? (We all get the Fenrir Greyback = child molester bit, so let's not even go there at the moment.) At any rate, my point is that even if you want to use this metaphor, it does not automatically equate to Remus Lupin being gay.
I think the metaphor works, mind you. I think it's an excellent way to begin introducing kids to the idea of prejudice against people with some sort of illness or ailment, in much the same way Chicken Run is a great way to begin introducing kids to the concept of Nazi death camps. But the metaphor is more for how the world treats someone with that sort of problem and how they can cope and have courage in the face of adversity, not for the disease itself.
Anyway.
and
On to Romance!
I've been thinking about different novels and series and stuff that I watch or read, and what I like within them in terms of romance. What attracts me to a couple, and what makes me want to read about that couple? It's not the same things I think about for coupledom in real life. I mean, I am in a great relationship, but it would make incredibly boring reading. So what makes a fascinating couple? What do I like? There's a couple things, I think.
The Epic Love
This is, by far, my favorite category. The one where I can see the big love of a lifetime. It's always fraught with some reason why the two can't be together, or some obstacle at any rate. This is best if the obstacle comes both from society and from within the couple itself. Romances like Remus and Sirius (in my head, but Harry Potter), Jack and Ennis (Brokeback Mountain), Brekke and F'nor (Anne McCaffery's Pern), A'drias and C'olby (and Adrian and Colby, for that matter ;) , and Lakesedge Pern), Satine and Christian, and Rhett and Scarlett come in. They all have some major obstacle, some big thing that has to be overcome. However, they're all CRAP at communication (although Brekke and F'nor less so). These also tend to be the romances where the flaws are the most evident. These work well as the main romance for me.
However, notice how often they end in tragedy.
The Married Couple
On the opposite end of the scale, I'm a huge fan of the married couple as well. I like stable, secure romances. Molly and Arthur and Frank and Alice (Harry Potter), Melanie and Ashley, Jed and Abby (West Wing)... even when they're having problems, you know this sort of couple will stick it through until the end. I had a hard time coming up with some of these, because they do tend to be rare in fiction. It's precisely because of what I said earlier- they don't make very interesting reading as a main plot. You can have a main character involved in a solid romance or marriage, but the plot needs to focus on something else. You can also portray an issue within that marriage or relationship. I like these stories, because so often they end up in a happy ending :) Plus, they're accessible. These tend to be your more "real life" stories.
The Cute Couple
I admit it- I'm a bit of a sucker for cute. But it can't be pure fluff. I need something dark in it too. Like James and Lily. Would I be as interested in them if they hadn't croaked? Probably not. Or Claire and Charlie on Lost (or at least, I hope that's where that's going- we're only in Season 1. DON'T TELL ME!). They're darling, but with Charlie's former heroin addiction and Claire's past... yeah. Not fluffy, even if they're cute. I also always liked... oh SHOOT. They were a pair in The Left Behind series. David and Annie, I think. (Once the authors learned a LITTLE better how to write romance.) Apocolypse also adds some nice tension. Natalie and Jeremy from Sports Night is another, although that always disturbed me because I dated a guy (hi Kelse!) who WAS Jeremy, except that he was not so into sports. But looks, mannerisms, speech patterns.... Watching Sports Night really cracked me up on that level.
The Cute Couple II, or the Fun Couple
This is a pairing that isn't necessarily as cute emotionally- they lack the innocence- but are cute in other ways, particularly their interactions with each other. The absolute top of this list is Danny and CJ from West Wing. Depending on their mood, Natalie and Jeremy fit in here too. And while I would never, ever, EVER want to read certain types of fanfic about them (
theregoesyamum and ignipes, don't even THINK about it), Miss Piggy and Kermit go in this category as well. It's all about the banter. There isn't necessarily a huge emotional investment in the couple, but they are fun to watch. Okay. Enough babbling for today, and on to housework.
Goodie.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2006-01-18 07:22 pm (UTC)Uhm, no.
totally unrelated: but I just remembered that I had a dream in which you,
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Date: 2006-01-19 01:07 pm (UTC)And heh. I'm blonde, and you ought to see our garden in front of our house. It's kind of, well, DEAD. (I'm not a very good gardener!) But thanks on the baby! :)
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Date: 2006-01-23 03:30 am (UTC)Hi by the way, I'm new to commenting on your journal, but I just read all the stories in your AIL universe (and love your Alphard*loves* and your S/R is just so)and found this, you'll get another comment from me on the actual post... but yeah Hi :)
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Date: 2006-01-18 07:36 pm (UTC)Awwwwwwwwwwwww... ^_^
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Date: 2006-01-19 01:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-18 08:04 pm (UTC)I know Lost is the series my bf's completely obsessed with, and, er, that West Wing is shown in the Warner Channel here. That's all.
I wish I could just get like a box filled with general knowledge and make my brain absorb it.
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Date: 2006-01-19 01:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-18 08:04 pm (UTC)*innocent*
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Date: 2006-01-18 09:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-19 01:13 pm (UTC)The only "stereotype" reason I've ever seen for explaining that Remus is gay that I've enjoyed was someone joked that no straight man would ever remember to mention Augusta Longbottom's handbag. Good point! (Even if it's totally negated by the fact Remus Lupin is written by a woman who would remember about handbags ;) )
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Date: 2006-01-18 09:12 pm (UTC)And I think I must be very shallow, as all my favourite fictional couples are what you called the Cute Couple II or Fun Couple. Spike/Lynda or Patrick/Sally, and I think Ron/Hermione fall into that category as well. Big epic romances bore me slightly, to be perfectly honest!
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Date: 2006-01-19 01:34 am (UTC)Yes, I think it works very well as a metaphor for mental illness too, just as much as AIDS -- in neither case does it fit exactly (which is good as it gives it in-story resonance) but in both cases it's highly suggestive.
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Date: 2006-01-19 04:06 am (UTC)BTW, there's a really interesting discussion about lycanthropy and mental illness going on at
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Date: 2006-01-19 01:18 pm (UTC)And that's exactly my point. Mental illness works as a good parallel too- and so do so many other conditions. (I never thought of the mental illness parallel, but I like it.) :)
And I don't think you're shallow- people just like reading different things. There are a lot of couples I don't care for at all. The best example I can think of is on Lost- I have no interest in the Jack/Kate/Sawyer thing, except that Sawyer can take his shirt off any time he wants. Fun couples are just that- FUN! (And I think a younger or happier Sirius and Remus fall there as well. And I like Ron/Hermione as well.)
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Date: 2006-01-18 09:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-19 01:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-18 09:40 pm (UTC)So, I think JKR probably did just mean chronic disease/ailment in general. But it's an interesting conversation, nevertheless.
The Epic Love. This is, by far, my favorite category.
Heh. It's pretty much my only category. I'm a sucker that way.
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Date: 2006-01-19 01:21 pm (UTC)JKR's flat-out admitted that she did play with chronic illness with Lupin, which is one of the things that kind of makes me shake my head when people INSIST she meant gay. Ah well!
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Date: 2006-01-18 09:55 pm (UTC)Er, not that I'm implying AIDS isn't a horrible disease all by itself. Can't read The Wild Swans and not get that picture, crystal clear. :(
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Date: 2006-01-19 01:25 pm (UTC)What I want to see someday is a post-POA R/S fic where Remus actually has to use a condom because he hasn't been tested for AIDS and then has to explain why he's doing that to Sirius. That would just be... if someone did it right, it would be really interesting.
And your icon makes me sniffle. :)
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Date: 2006-01-19 12:26 am (UTC)Also, Kermit/Miss Piggy is my original OTP. I need a kermit/piggy icon.
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Date: 2006-01-19 02:28 am (UTC)(Not that you'll understand that. You see, I go by midnitemaraud_r here in HP fandom, but everywhere else - online and in RL - I'm known by 'Lambchop'. It's been my nickname since I was @13 years old)
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Date: 2006-01-19 01:26 pm (UTC)We definitely need a plank.
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Date: 2006-01-19 02:41 am (UTC)With romance, for someone who is such a total sap, I don't particularly look for romance in most of the things I read. Which is why I never read books like Pride and Prejudice (though I did see the mini-series with Colin!) or any of the Austen sisters (except for required school reading) or even Gone With The Wind. Even when I first read Harry Potter, I wasn't particularly interested in romantic pairings of the characters in the books. (fandom did that to me!)
Even in my other fandoms - Highlander and Trixie Belden - it wasn't the romance I was interested in. Not before I immersed myself in online fandom.
Except for Diana Gabaldon's Outlander series. But my sister initially got to me read those because it was a time travel book, and had Scottish men in kilts. *g* That's not to say I never read books for romance or enjoy the romance aspects. I do. It's just not usually a primary factor for me.
But I do prefer "epic" most of all. Except I'd rather have a happy ending with particular couples, damn it! *g*
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Date: 2006-01-19 01:33 pm (UTC)I like my romances, but I like them more on the side. For all that I write R/S, that's actually one of the things I love about Harry Potter- that romance isn't a huge thing. I can't get into actual romance novels, but on the side... :) And even in HP, I've never cared about most of the romances. (And heck, even if you read AIL, it's such a long work because the romance is almost becoming secondary- it's more the first war told from Sirius and Remus's pov.)
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Date: 2006-01-19 03:46 am (UTC)On the romance part of your post, I don't really look for books about romance, that's just dull. I would rather go for a full fledged epic story that encompasses drama, adventure, comedy and romance. Of course a nice fluffy, inoffensive romantic comedy flick is always a nice distraction for a while, but I couldn't make a steady diet of it.
I like Gonzo and the chickens.
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Date: 2006-01-19 01:36 pm (UTC)Exactly. I actually really like the AIDS/lycanthropy connection, but it's not the only one that works.
I don't go for just romance myself, either. That's one of the things about HP- the romances are secondary. Even if you look at Accidentally In Love, my big work, it's really ceased to be a romance and gone to be the story of the first war told from Sirius and Remus's points of view. (I knew it would be and it really should have been categorized as something besides romance at FA, but I knew I'd get more readers with it as a romance. Shameless.) But I love romances on the side... as long as they're the right type. Certain romances don't interest me at all :P
I LOVE Gonzo. But my all-time favorite is the Swedish Chef :) And Dr. Bunsen Honeydew, of course!
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Date: 2006-01-19 05:47 am (UTC)I like Epic Couples the most too (Eh, I wonder if we get the same ideas when we think of “Epic”). Married Couples are alright in theory, but I don’t know a ton of married couples. Teen!Married couples are funny. I imagine Narcissa pregnant at school, but I imagine Lucius much older. I wanted James to be a teen father very badly. It would have been beautiful, and JKR wouldn’t have to change her story probably at all. Sometimes life isn’t fair.
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Date: 2006-01-19 02:19 pm (UTC). I imagine Narcissa pregnant at school, but I imagine Lucius much older. I wanted James to be a teen father very badly.
::snort:: The idea of Narcissa pregnant at school definitely makes me laugh. I kind of see her as bit more of an ice maiden, but I'm willing to be amused.
I actually go back and forth between whether James and Lily got married before she got pregnant or she got pregnant before they got married. I suspect we'll never know.
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Date: 2006-01-19 10:17 pm (UTC)Oh! I was thinking while walking home--The whole lycanthropy deal could tie in sexism. Like, some people think menstruation is a curse, but other people are proud of it. And it's sometimes painful, but it's natural and linked to reproduction-and werewolves reproduce by biting while in wolf form. Also lycanthropy is tied to the moon and sometimes girls like to pretend their periods are tied to the moon. Werewolves are mostly discriminated against economically, and so are women. Remus had to go hide in the shack, just like menstruating women had to leave the communities while menstruating back in the day. Many werewolves believe a werewolf-controlled society would be superior, and women-controlled societies also have a place as ideals for many people. Remus is teh super girlie who thinks men generally know best, and Fenrir is the revolutionary that sometimes comes close to sexism herself. It looks stupider now that I have written it out.
Lily might have been pregnant before she got married, but I don't think she was pregnant when she was at Hogwarts, which is what I wanted. ::sneeze:: But I can always see Narcissa as a ditz who got pregnant at school. Hah.
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Date: 2006-01-19 10:28 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-19 02:20 pm (UTC)And I think I've said that before, but I LOVE that icon. :)
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Date: 2006-01-19 02:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-19 03:02 pm (UTC)Although, someone once mentioned that he actually remembered to mention Mrs. Longbottom's handbag, and no straight man would ever think of that. If her handbag wasn't so memorable (and the author wasn't a woman!), they might have a point....
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Date: 2006-01-19 06:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-19 11:25 pm (UTC)But yeah, I do agree with you.
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Date: 2006-01-20 02:15 pm (UTC)And the whole AIDS = homosexuality....I find this really absurd. (Suprisingly, I haven't seen much of this is fandom, but sometimes in real life....)
As for romances...epic love! <3
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Date: 2006-01-23 05:03 am (UTC)When I first read POA, this metaphor totally jumped out of the page for me, I saw it right away. Whatever illness was JKR's inspiration for this, my mind picked HIV cause I've been personally effected by this disease more then any other.
Another disturbing trend I notice is that people in the fandom automatically equate AIDS and homosexuality. Um, newsflash, fangirls. Straight people get AIDS as well.
I hear you on this, but I must confess that I made the same correlation of HIV and homosexuality when it came to Lupin. Now, about 80% of the people I know that have HIV or have died of AIDS related illnesses are straight people (mainly women.)
I believe after I thought about Lycanthropy as HIV, it lead me to Lupin being gay cause even though we are 36 years into the epidemic, society still chooses to believe that AIDS=GAY and even though its not true, its such a strong stigma and prejudice, that it resonated with me the more I read about Lupin and the discrimination he faces. I'm usually criticized for giving the fandom too much credit (and this may be cause everyone I've met so far is sane and intelligent, but yeah I've only been around 5 months) than they deserve, but I'd like to think that people thought HIV/Gay and not AIDS=GAY. I think there is a distinction in that which is not as horrible, (though it is all fucked.)
I think it is Lupin (to me) being very gay and having Lycanthropy (to me) which is like HIV(I would say that his actually turning into the wolf is like having full blown AIDS, but I wont go into that) is what made this character so compelling. Of course, I also see Half-breeds as being the true minorities in HPverse(not half-bloods or muggle-borns) so that's another layer that makes me relate to Lupin.
Now, on the Romance front, I think I'm totally into the epic romance. I love love that can't be but is, or has other obstacles, or is meant to be regardless, and just yeah, great love. The rest of the categories you present are interesting but don't hold as much appeal for me. Ok I think that's everything. This is the first long comment for me in a while, so um, thanks for making me think. :)
no subject
Date: 2006-01-25 10:19 am (UTC)