Must. Vent.

[lls_mutant]

I know I need to answer comments. I know I need to write. I know I need to go downstairs and see my husband. But I must vent for a moment.



Toby has started tantrums. At home, big whoop. I ignore them, don't give in, yada yada yada. In public, harder. Why harder, you ask?

Because he shouts "in the car! in the car!" He wants to ride in the car and go home.

What does a polite person generally do with a tantruming child? Get them out of the situation and home.

Yeah. You see?

He's done it before in the grocery store. Now, I do not care at all if what I do is rude. I know what he wants, and he is throwing these tantrums (rarely, but he does it) deliberately, because he wants to go ride in the car and go home and play. He is not wet, or sick, or tired at these points. This is only emphasized when he keeps saying "trains!" over and over. So, in the grocery store, I finish what I need to do, all the while trying to shush him and letting him know his behavior is not acceptable. Okay, I might shorten my list, but I will get the vitals for the night and pay. I will NOT remove him from the cart, because trust me- I won't get him back in.

He did it today in a restaurant, and I was almost in tears because I was so frustrated. I just did not know what to do. Eventually, I got him calmed down and finished a few more bites of my lunch, told him I was finished, boxed up my lunch and got us home. He went straight to bed- no playing. But it's just really, really frustrating. Even taking him to the restroom doesn't help, because you can take him, calm him down, and then he'll start back up once you come back out. If the tantrum was about ANYTHING but wanting to ride in the car and go home, the answer is obvious- get in the car and go home.

I know the first one isn't polite. But you know what? I don't give a fuck. (Yes, I'm that annoyed at the moment.) I will do what's best for my child and the rest of the grocery store can deal. It's not like I don't hear a crying kid pretty much every time I go in there, y'know? (And I shop when it's generally SAHMs anyway. The one time he did this, I found more people giving me the "I've been there" look of sympathy than the glare of doom.)

Argh. Vent helped a bit. Maybe now a cold shower and some ice cream. Mmm. Ice cream.

Comments

[aome.livejournal.com]

Well, I do like your solution - sure, you can go home, Toby. But you go into your crib for X amount of time (at his age, a good half hour, I'd say) and I take away your trains for the rest of the day.

Another solution might be to leave the venue and go outside and let him tantrum out there (ie in front of the grocery/restaurant, etc, not IN it), or, another option is to put him in the car/carseat and let him tantrum in there without turning the car on or going anywhere. Disturbing the peace and just letting him tantrum, ignoring him, while it shows that he might as well Give Up Now, works in some venues (ie grocery) and not so much in others (restaurants - you might be asked to leave), so keep a Plan B in mind for those situations.

Good luck! He really is good at pushing ALL the buttons, isn't he? Alas, the next year or two only get worse from here on out. :P

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Thanks :) and no, after listening to your rants about what Two's putting you through, I think he's left a few buttons unpushed!

In the grocery store, I'm totally willing to disturb the peace. For one, I shop during the day on weekdays. It's generally SAHMs in there anyway, and he's still so little that people are inclined to be charitable. Plus, I'm on the move, I can get through quickly, and it's easy to shorten my errand without being obvious about it. (He doesn't know what all's on my grocery list.) And he's only pulled that one twice so far.

The restaurant is the trickier one, I guess. The thing is, he's usually good in restaurants. Or if he's not, he acts up before we sit down. If he's doing that, we just get out of there. But very occasionally, like yesterday, he acts up mid-meal. It's not a treat for him to be in a restaurant since he doesn't eat their food (although I do bring his), and while I bring toys and books and crayons, that doesn't always work, either. :P And as soon as I pick him up... BANG. We stop tantruming. It's amazing. :P (Going out to the car only works right now if I'm willing to turn the car on, because it's WAY too hot.)

I think what actually really got to me is the board I was posting on. God forbid your child make a noise or misbehave even the tiniest bit in public. If they do that, you're apparently supposed to get them out of the situation in an instant, or you're a menace to society and disrespecting the rights of others. Sure, if your kid is screaming bloody murder or running around like a hellion. But if your kid accidentally kicks the seat while she's climbing into a booth at a family restaurant or starts crying while you're in the checkout line? You evil person, you.

::Sigh:: I've really gotta learn which boards I should play on and which I should avoid!

Thanks for the sympathetic ear!

[merlinssister12.livejournal.com]

I was going to say that you should take him out and sit him in the car in his car seat, without going anywhere. Then I realized that its summertime and the car could get very hot and uncomfortable for both of you, even with open windows.
Alternatively, I would suggest going outside of the restaurant or grocery store, and away from any tempting ride-ons, and just staying there for x-number of minutes till he has calmed down, and tell him firmly no car until you are done.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

I'll hit the others later, but I just had to say THANK YOU. The people on the other board I was posting on insisted on the car approach, and I was sitting here thinking, "um, does it not occur to anyone that it's 100 degrees out, and even hotter in a car?" ::sigh::

The problem with the grocery store is that as soon as he's in my arms, he'll stop tantruming because he thinks we're going home. Given how heavy he's getting and the fact I shouldn't be doing THAT much heavy lifting, carrying him through shopping isn't an acceptable solution. To be honest, in the grocery store, I don't worry about it. If I have a short list, I do my shopping as fast as I can, and if I have a long list, I just get what I need that night. Normally he's good about the grocery store, so I can try again the next day with a good success rate.

It's the restaurants that are a problem, and prompted this whole thing. I can either stand and hold him, which doesn't work out well, let him finish his tantrum in the restroom, which I'm not fond of because unrestrained he'll kick and roll, and in a public restroom YUCK! :), or leave, which he will stop crying as soon as he's in my arms and by the time he's buckled into the car seat be as happy as a clam, because that's exactly what he wanted. Fortunately, he doesn't do this TOO often in restaurants, either, but still. Very annoying.

The good news is he's getting so his memory is a bit better, and I can get him home and punish him there by time out in the crib or whatever. (Heck- yesterday he went down for his nap, which I hadn't realized he was so tired because it was a bit early.) I REALLY hate having him do this in a restaurant, because at least at the grocery store or a bank or Target I usually HAVE to be there, whereas in a restaurant I don't. So other errands I'll just disturb the peace and finish, but in a restaurant....

Also, if he'd tantrum about anything but his desire to go home? Simple. Get him out and get him home. It's just he actually wants the solution I would use.

My kid is weird :)

Thanks for the sympathetic ear!

[merlinssister12.livejournal.com]

Your welcome.
Any ideas for tantruming sixteen year-olds?

[lilacsigil.livejournal.com]

As someone who works in retail, and has seen plenty of shrieking kids, the only ones that are really awful are the ones where the mother just walks off or chats to her friends and leaves the kid to wreck the shop. If he's confined, and you're with him, people will deal.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Thanks. And yeah, when it's in a store and I'm trying to finish my errand instead of getting him out, he is confined. Fortunately, he hasn't tried standing in the cart yet! ::knocks wood.::

[krabapple.livejournal.com]

What lilacsigal said. :) Almost all moms and dads will know what you are going through, so you you're not really bothering them. Childcare providers and teachers know the deal, so you're not bothering them either. Anyone else should be grateful that you are with him and obviously dealing with the situation; it *is* the kids whose parents wander off that need to reevaluate their strategies.

I know your situation really doesn't compare to what I get at school, since I usually have more leverage (toys, snack, upcoming outside times, etc.), plus most kids are more comfortable at home or with parents so they don't get as worked up. I get more defiance than I do tantrums.

Not that you want to give in, but you could think about leverage of your own if he does this again. Like you did today -- if he really does want to play with his trains, then he needs to stop; if not, it's to bed. It'll take him a few times to get the message, but he will. If there's something that's coming up later that he'd want to do (like going to the park), you can negotiate with that, too. When you go out, is he generally occupied? I have had kids who need a "fidget" or object that helps them sit at circle, etc. I'm thinking something to hold or play with, some small toy. You can also go with behavior mod and reward good or expected behavior with positive tangibles -- stickers, whatever. If you get through the store, he gets a sticker. It could be on a chart (like you can keep it on the fridge and count how many he gets) or he could just get it and wear it, etc -- show it off to Daddy. :)

Anyway. *hugs* Like I said, I know you have it much tougher than I do! Feel free to vent any time!

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

He is generally occupied when I take him out. To be honest, I very rarely have trouble with him right now, especially because he loves to ride in cars or those car carts that a lot of stores have. He's very much an observer, so going out is interesting to him. But we just got a new train table, and the novelty has yet to wear off. "Trains!" is a constant plea in our house :)

I think what was getting me was more the attitude on the board I was posting on. There's a world of difference between a perfectly behaved child and a hellion, and most kids seem to fall somewhere in between. But on that board, some days it seems like if your child makes noise in public, you are evil and your child is an entitlement minded brat. The attitude just really ticked me off, especially when I was a.) talking about an episode that's happened all of twice, and b.) asking for tips on how to deal with his tantrums in a restaurant, since what he wants is to leave, and he's still so young that he'll half-forget why he's in trouble by the time we get home, especially since he likes riding in the car.

[inksheddings.livejournal.com]

I am very familiar with tantrums in grocery stores. *g* And as far as I'm concerned leaving is not an option. I mean, gotta go shopping, you know? So I ignore them. Totally. If one is screaming (though luckily everyone has pretty much outgrown this) I just keep going and say nothing about the tantrum to the child, act like it's not even happening. Because any attention toward the behavior -- in my experience anyway -- only encourages them to continue shrieking. Rarely have I gotten dirty looks from other shoppers, mostly sympathy.

I like your idea about putting him to bed instead of letting him play once you're home, since what he wants is to go home. I think if he's tantruming about trains, then when you get home, well -- no trains. And definitely quiet time in his crib/bed. He'll eventually learn that even though he's going home, his outbursts still don't get him exactly what he wants.

Ah, we've all been there. We hated every minute of it. *g* Good luck. *hugs*

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much! And I agree totally with your philosophy. I figure a few ignored tantrums to leave will hopefully add up to fewer tantrums to leave in general. He'll get over it far more quickly if I can ignore it. In a grocery store, I can. (In a restaurant, I do agree it's rude to keep him in there disturbing others.)

I swear, being cute is totally their self-defense some days!

[(Anonymous)]

Aah, you poor thing. It's that age; from what I've seen, things do get better, but you have to stick to your guns.

The only thing that drives me crazy in the grocery store is when I see parents attempting to bribe their kids into shutting up. Talk about a great way to escalate the problem!

You might not like this approach, but some parents use shaming with good results. Nothing too harsh, just a "you embarrassed mme and made me sad when you behaved that way" kind of deal. And the other side of that: "I'm proud of how well you're behaving! Look at that whiny kid over there--I'm so glad you're not like that!"

Also, an early-childhood teacher trick: always suggest positive consequences with appropriate behavior. Example: "As soon as you quiet down, we can finish our shopping and go home." Unfortunately, this generally works better with age 4 or so and older.

It's not easy. That's why they write entire volumes on parenting. But you are not alone, and you are doing great. And if ranting helps even a little, more power to you.

Good luck and bless you!

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

I am not at all adverse to shaming, although I generally don't point out other kids. I use the converse- praising good behavior- to GREAT effect- it works really, really well on my son. He's very eager to be told he's a good boy (and will even tell himself if I don't say it!), so that's my first line of defense.

Thanks so much! :)

[misscake]

The one time he did this, I found more people giving me the "I've been there" look of sympathy than the glare of doom. Exactly. We all have and tantrums aren't any fun and it's even more frustrating because you can't really reason with them that young.

What about bringing one of his trains or a toy he enjoys and pulling it out as a surprise? So when he screams, "trains", you can give him one. Of course, that'll only work for a while until he wants something else, but it might help for now and give you a little peace.

Tantrums are all about them trying to assert control and as difficult as it is, he needs to learn who's in charge.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

I usually do have something on hand with me, but I think his issue recently is we just got a new train table. He LOVES it. "Trains" has been a very constant mantra around here for the past week. I'm hoping eventually he'll realize it's here to stay and the novelty and urgency will wear off. It might be in vain, but here's hoping!

Tantrums are all about them trying to assert control and as difficult as it is, he needs to learn who's in charge.

I could not agree more! :)

[lazy-neutrino.livejournal.com]

I think most people with any humanity will sympathise rather than anything else. He's not misbehaving, he's just having a toddler tantrum and that's a natural developmental stage he needs to work through.

When my friend Penny brought her two-year-old up to stay, we went shopping. He hurled himself backwards onto the floor and writhed and screamed as if he was having a fit. I was really frightened. I thought he might hurt himself. 'He's fine,' she said calmly. 'Next time he does it, watch what he does first. He glances behind him to check the floor surface, so he doesn't hurt himself.'

He did, too. I was very impressed! It looks terrifying from the outside, but he's totally in control.

I don't think there is a point to this story, by the way. Except that my opinion of Penny shot sky-high and has remained there ever since. The child is now a delightful twelve-year-old with a passion for arts and crafts.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Thanks! :)

Actually, there is a point to the story, and that's that even very young children are capable of trying to manipulate their parents, and a good parent- like Penny- doesn't let them do that, even if it's annoying for other people. I'd say I'll be glad to be done with tantrums, but then it will be something else. Heh.

Thanks again! :)

[secretsolitaire.livejournal.com]

Oy. I have nothing constructive to say since I don't have kids and have never really even baby-sat for longer than 20 minutes. But: *hugs* What you did sounds reasonable enough to me.