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lls_mutantYou know, I didn't think you could be sick of bodily functions. But I swear, if I have to pee one more time... ::sigh:: Honestly. But that's hardly a new complaint, I'm sure.
The 'rents are coming for the weekend, which will be nice. They haven't been down since Grandma had her stroke back in January- hubby and I have gone up every single time. I think Mom needs to get away from Grandma for a bit. She's pretty much a saint about the whole thing, but it does drain her, and when you consider Grandma isn't even her mother.... Anyway, should be a nice weekend, but I'll be glad when the housecleaning is done! (On the bright side, I needed to clean the house. Badly.)
So I was bored and surfing on LJ, and kind of going to some journals I don't go to much because the owners are R/T shippers- or at least ship defenders. It's not that I find those journals offensive, it's just kind of like the ship threads and can't stand threads at FAP, y'know? If you're a shipper and want to defend a particular ship, you should be able to do so in your LJ without people coming around and telling you why they don't like that ship. But there was actually a really good discussion going on FAP between a few people (the Order of the Phoenix forum on the Tonks thread) that, y'know, actually had INTELLIGENT conversation. So I started surfing journals, and I came across this amusing little piece by![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
snorkackcatcher. It features both het and slash, and while it has a successful R/T it actually gives Tonks her dignity, and has a twist that really cracked me up. But anyway. That wasn't my point. (Although you should go read it anyway, as long as you don't feel the need to start any sort of ship wars when you read R/T stuff.)
In the comments, I mentioned that rather than the stereotypes of lesbians, Tonks struck me more as the stereotype of a college student, a commentsnorkackcatcher agreed with. And that got me thinking about Tonks.
You know the kind of college student I'm thinking when I think of Tonks. The kind who is full of fire to change the world, and determined that SHE is going to make a difference. I can see Tonks having that fire and passion... and that idealism. I can see her maintaining that all through her Auror training, especially since she seems to have a close association with Moody. Moody might be kind of creepy in his way, but I can see where a young Auror would idolize him. Heck, I have Sirius do it to an extent, although in my stuff he tends to idolize Damien Lupin more. But in GoF, Sirius talks about what a fantastic Auror Moody is, and how he refused to use the Unforgivable Curses if he could help it. (Or at least that's implied.) So anyway, I can see where Tonks would have this deep-seated belief that she's out to change the world and she can do it, and being an Auror is a great way to do so.
Then Voldemort comes back.
A lot has been made about Tonks's depression being about her being a green Auror and getting into something she didn't really anticipate. Let's say screw that for a moment, because that really IS very degrading to her as a woman (since we don't have a man having the same problem), and say that maybe it's something else... maybe it's Tonks realizing that her ideals are WRONG.
Not wrong in that she shouldn't believe in them. She should. But wrong in that she thinks she herself can save the world, that she can convince people of the way the world should be, and that all those she comes in contact with- especially those that outrank her- are worthy of her respect. But she can't change the world alone. Bellatrix defeated her and killed Sirius. She can't convince people of the way the world should be. No one is really listening to her, and she's basically having to follow orders she doesn't agree with. And those that outrank her are not always worthy of her respect. Even as early as OotP we saw that Tonks didn't totally trust Scrimgeour when she was worried about him asking questions, and then in HBP....
One of my predictions for HBP was that Amos Diggory would be the new Minister of Magic. I was wrong about the identity, but I was close to right about the reasons. I thought that JKR would chose someone who was anti-Voldemort, but who wasn't necessarily pro-Dumbledore, or behaving like Harry would think a Minister of Magic should. And we definitely see that, particularly in the case of Stan Shunpike, where it's obvious, even to the most casual reader, that Stan Shunpike is not a Death Eater, pretty much from the get-go.
We see that case, but it's insinuated that there's more. I'm writing this without having my book, so there might even be more cases mentioned that I'm forgetting. (I really need to do a reread.) But as an Auror- and one of the people being required to arrest these people- Tonks is, without a doubt, seeing things that aren't all that kosher in the Ministry. Now here's where I'm making a jump a bit. It's not canon, but I think it's not unreasonable, either. Tonks is having her ideal picture of being an Auror stripped away layer by layer, very rapidly, as she's being told to do things she doesn't agree with. And she can't stop it, because it doesn't seem like she's got enough power to change anyone's mind (I wouldn't expect her to, at her age). And she can't just up and quit, because a lot of what she is doing IS valuable and is what she wants to do. But we see her losing a lot of her more collegiate stereotypes, particularly the pink hair. (Of course, she gets it back at the end, but...)
The thing about the green Auror thing is that we don't see Tonks losing her nerve. If I remember rightly (and I very well may not), she does fine at the battle at Hogwarts at the end, and she doesn't seem to be having any real trouble with her post. But an Auror losing her idealism... now that I can buy.
It also adds a new layer to Tonks/Lupin. Both of them are being asked to do something they don't want to do. There's a difference, of course. Tonks is being asked to do something she believes is wrong, whereas Lupin is being asked to do something that must be extraordinarily painful. I've wondered how various characters feel about Lupin being asked to do his spying job. (And perhaps Tonks is losing some faith in Dumbledore as well? But really, I see no evidence for that one.) But at least it gives them something in common.
Sadly, this is all my thoughts. I still firmly believe that none of these layers that fandom is rapidly building onto Tonks are really clearly built on by JKR, but hey. I really liked Tonks in OotP and one of the big reasons Lupin/Tonks pissed me off was I HATED what it did to her character. So if I can find some rationalizations, at least for now.... I still, for the record, think that she would have been better off with Charlie Weasley. Someone (I want to say it might have even beensnorkackchaser again) pointed out in the FAP discussion that while Tonks might not have been behaving well, Lupin was pretty darn manipulative too, bringing up Dumbledore's death as a shield against a conversation he didn't want to have. Very true. The man is a passive-agressive, manipulative, lying bastard when he wants to be. He really is. And he is old, poor, and dangerous- and even if Tonks doesn't believe these are issues, they will become issues because they are important in his mind. Tonks should have gone for Charlie Weasley, who has a strong attachment to his family but the courage, independence, and interest to go gallivanting off to Romania to do what he really wants to do. Of course, that requires them MEETING on the page, but what do you want? ;)
Anyway, I should get back to work. Not that I'm getting far anyway, which is why I'm writing this. ::Sigh::
ETA: Two pieces of writing posted: my Hitch Review, which I was actually fairly pleased with this time, and (Pooly, look away please) a little PWP. Which I shouldn't have been writing since it's NOT on my list, but at least the Hitch review was (although JUSTIN added the slashy comments to the picture captions. Not me. I only did the first one- the one about going up the stairs and down the banisters, which was really lame. But I suck at captions.)
The 'rents are coming for the weekend, which will be nice. They haven't been down since Grandma had her stroke back in January- hubby and I have gone up every single time. I think Mom needs to get away from Grandma for a bit. She's pretty much a saint about the whole thing, but it does drain her, and when you consider Grandma isn't even her mother.... Anyway, should be a nice weekend, but I'll be glad when the housecleaning is done! (On the bright side, I needed to clean the house. Badly.)
So I was bored and surfing on LJ, and kind of going to some journals I don't go to much because the owners are R/T shippers- or at least ship defenders. It's not that I find those journals offensive, it's just kind of like the ship threads and can't stand threads at FAP, y'know? If you're a shipper and want to defend a particular ship, you should be able to do so in your LJ without people coming around and telling you why they don't like that ship. But there was actually a really good discussion going on FAP between a few people (the Order of the Phoenix forum on the Tonks thread) that, y'know, actually had INTELLIGENT conversation. So I started surfing journals, and I came across this amusing little piece by
snorkackcatcher. It features both het and slash, and while it has a successful R/T it actually gives Tonks her dignity, and has a twist that really cracked me up. But anyway. That wasn't my point. (Although you should go read it anyway, as long as you don't feel the need to start any sort of ship wars when you read R/T stuff.)In the comments, I mentioned that rather than the stereotypes of lesbians, Tonks struck me more as the stereotype of a college student, a comment
snorkackcatcher agreed with. And that got me thinking about Tonks.You know the kind of college student I'm thinking when I think of Tonks. The kind who is full of fire to change the world, and determined that SHE is going to make a difference. I can see Tonks having that fire and passion... and that idealism. I can see her maintaining that all through her Auror training, especially since she seems to have a close association with Moody. Moody might be kind of creepy in his way, but I can see where a young Auror would idolize him. Heck, I have Sirius do it to an extent, although in my stuff he tends to idolize Damien Lupin more. But in GoF, Sirius talks about what a fantastic Auror Moody is, and how he refused to use the Unforgivable Curses if he could help it. (Or at least that's implied.) So anyway, I can see where Tonks would have this deep-seated belief that she's out to change the world and she can do it, and being an Auror is a great way to do so.
Then Voldemort comes back.
A lot has been made about Tonks's depression being about her being a green Auror and getting into something she didn't really anticipate. Let's say screw that for a moment, because that really IS very degrading to her as a woman (since we don't have a man having the same problem), and say that maybe it's something else... maybe it's Tonks realizing that her ideals are WRONG.
Not wrong in that she shouldn't believe in them. She should. But wrong in that she thinks she herself can save the world, that she can convince people of the way the world should be, and that all those she comes in contact with- especially those that outrank her- are worthy of her respect. But she can't change the world alone. Bellatrix defeated her and killed Sirius. She can't convince people of the way the world should be. No one is really listening to her, and she's basically having to follow orders she doesn't agree with. And those that outrank her are not always worthy of her respect. Even as early as OotP we saw that Tonks didn't totally trust Scrimgeour when she was worried about him asking questions, and then in HBP....
One of my predictions for HBP was that Amos Diggory would be the new Minister of Magic. I was wrong about the identity, but I was close to right about the reasons. I thought that JKR would chose someone who was anti-Voldemort, but who wasn't necessarily pro-Dumbledore, or behaving like Harry would think a Minister of Magic should. And we definitely see that, particularly in the case of Stan Shunpike, where it's obvious, even to the most casual reader, that Stan Shunpike is not a Death Eater, pretty much from the get-go.
We see that case, but it's insinuated that there's more. I'm writing this without having my book, so there might even be more cases mentioned that I'm forgetting. (I really need to do a reread.) But as an Auror- and one of the people being required to arrest these people- Tonks is, without a doubt, seeing things that aren't all that kosher in the Ministry. Now here's where I'm making a jump a bit. It's not canon, but I think it's not unreasonable, either. Tonks is having her ideal picture of being an Auror stripped away layer by layer, very rapidly, as she's being told to do things she doesn't agree with. And she can't stop it, because it doesn't seem like she's got enough power to change anyone's mind (I wouldn't expect her to, at her age). And she can't just up and quit, because a lot of what she is doing IS valuable and is what she wants to do. But we see her losing a lot of her more collegiate stereotypes, particularly the pink hair. (Of course, she gets it back at the end, but...)
The thing about the green Auror thing is that we don't see Tonks losing her nerve. If I remember rightly (and I very well may not), she does fine at the battle at Hogwarts at the end, and she doesn't seem to be having any real trouble with her post. But an Auror losing her idealism... now that I can buy.
It also adds a new layer to Tonks/Lupin. Both of them are being asked to do something they don't want to do. There's a difference, of course. Tonks is being asked to do something she believes is wrong, whereas Lupin is being asked to do something that must be extraordinarily painful. I've wondered how various characters feel about Lupin being asked to do his spying job. (And perhaps Tonks is losing some faith in Dumbledore as well? But really, I see no evidence for that one.) But at least it gives them something in common.
Sadly, this is all my thoughts. I still firmly believe that none of these layers that fandom is rapidly building onto Tonks are really clearly built on by JKR, but hey. I really liked Tonks in OotP and one of the big reasons Lupin/Tonks pissed me off was I HATED what it did to her character. So if I can find some rationalizations, at least for now.... I still, for the record, think that she would have been better off with Charlie Weasley. Someone (I want to say it might have even been
snorkackchaser again) pointed out in the FAP discussion that while Tonks might not have been behaving well, Lupin was pretty darn manipulative too, bringing up Dumbledore's death as a shield against a conversation he didn't want to have. Very true. The man is a passive-agressive, manipulative, lying bastard when he wants to be. He really is. And he is old, poor, and dangerous- and even if Tonks doesn't believe these are issues, they will become issues because they are important in his mind. Tonks should have gone for Charlie Weasley, who has a strong attachment to his family but the courage, independence, and interest to go gallivanting off to Romania to do what he really wants to do. Of course, that requires them MEETING on the page, but what do you want? ;) Anyway, I should get back to work. Not that I'm getting far anyway, which is why I'm writing this. ::Sigh::
ETA: Two pieces of writing posted: my Hitch Review, which I was actually fairly pleased with this time, and (Pooly, look away please) a little PWP. Which I shouldn't have been writing since it's NOT on my list, but at least the Hitch review was (although JUSTIN added the slashy comments to the picture captions. Not me. I only did the first one- the one about going up the stairs and down the banisters, which was really lame. But I suck at captions.)
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Date: 2005-08-23 10:06 pm (UTC)But what he did (or at least attempted to do) was guilt Tonks (and everyone else) into delaying the conversation. I would say it's by far the lesser of two evils, and perhaps he had to do it. But it was manipulation to an extent. I'd like to get into his head there a bit better, and given that we've seen him lay the guilt trip before.... I think Remus understands people very well, and instinctively goes for the right targets to get out of situations. So I do think it was manipulative, I just think it was done with good cause, because NOT being manipulative would have been even worse. And you're right- he shouldn't have even HAD to do it.
As for the rest -- I would like to think that this is what JKR is doing, but why then does she not take advantage of it? Why not explore the themes of loss of idealism and survivor's guilt and such, rather than leaving it up to the wishful thinking of Tonks fans? If that is JKR's purpose, she's doing it pretty badly,
I do agree that it's fandom thinking far more than JKR's manufacture. Even the survivor's guilt thing is washed away in canon. But I liked Tonks in OotP, and I'd like to believe that JKR is doing these things. She's not. None of these complicated reasons ARE canon- at least, not at the moment. In fact, rather the opposite. But for fanon- which often times goes deeper- what can I come up with? How can I like a character again? Let's look at some of these reasons that people are tossing out for Tonks to act as she does. And loss of idealism is one I haven't seen people play with. I wanted to do some wishful thinking right now :)
I do wonder about how canon R/T is some days. They SEEM to be holding hands, and the more I repeat it the more I cling to her phrasing in the interview, and when she brings the subject of R/T up. And there are no hints in OotP, and no hints towards Remus's feelings in HBP. (And you are 100% right about Harry's POV, and the fact it's one of the weakest excuses for us not to know something.) But I also have this feeling that if I get my hopes up it's not canon, I'll be very disappointed.
The loss of idealism is definitely a theme I don't really see JKR playing with. Maybe to an extent, but certainly not in Tonks, and I'm not even sure about the Trio (S.P.E.W. really could have gone somewhere there). But it's an interesting angle to me, if nothing else because I'm playing with the same thing with Sirius. This is definitely a theory for fandom, not canon. Sadly, my canon theory goes like this:
JKR wanted to distract us from Rosmerta and make us think something was weird with Tonks. She made her mopey. We were supposed to construct elaborate theories like we did with Percy in CoS, but the truth was much more simple than that. Tonks was in love with Remus! Joy! End of story.
Here's to hoping I get to eat my words on that one!!!!