Baby-Related Post

[lls_mutant]

Okay, this one is for the moms of boys and the all of two or three gentlemen who read this. The rest of you really, really, REALLY might want to skip this one. (Although if you have a thought, please feel free to share.)

And for those of you that are randomly reading this journal, I'm asking because we're having a baby boy and he's due in less than a month and hubby and I really need to decide this issue, not for any perverted reason.

Circumcision. We're clueless, especially since we both kind of feel like this is a very personal decision to the one person who doesn't get any say. I've decided to let hubby have the last word on it regardless, but does anyone have any thoughts, feelings, or facts about the matter? It doesn't seem like it's as crucial these days, and we aren't Jewish, so there's no religious implications or anything.

I know it's just one of those topics you don't discuss, and if anyone would prefer to comment anonymously please do so, but it's because people don't discuss it that we're completley clueless. Help?

ETA: After reading some stuff on the web, I am very, very, very quickly leaning further and further away from it. (Partly because I still think it's his body and he should have the choice to do what he will, and it doesn't seem like there's any medical basis for doing it.) But I'm still very interested in any thoughts in general.

Comments

[reddwarfer.livejournal.com]

I know I am neither, but I have young relatives that weren't. One is fine and the other needs to be circumsized because of some sort of infection.

I'll just say this: There is no medical necessity to have it done. There's no religious imperative, as you've stated.

Both of the young men claimed to have been glad to have made the choice themselves. It can impede sexual arousal since you are cutting away nerve endings.

I wouldn't do it myself. There is cleaning that you will have to teach him. Peeling back the foreskin to make sure it doesn't get infect, but it will be normal to him by the time he is older.

There's also a risk in doing it so young. There's been mistakes where the whole wee bit got disfigured. It's not common, but surgical mistake.

Plus they don't use any sort of anasthetic. They just lob the skin off. They may use a local, but they are too young for it to be painless. It is rather barbaric.

Leila

[reddwarfer.livejournal.com]

This was rather garbled. Sorry bout the bad grammar and spelling. I was distracted when I was writing. I was asking my mother, who is a nurse, about the medical necessity part.

[misscake]

This is a really hard decision to make. I didn't know for sure that I was having a boy until 10 days before he was born. My husband and I had talked about the pros and cons of it as well. I am not Jewish, but my husband is (although he's more of a cultural Jew than a religious, practicing Jew). In the end, we decided to do it so that he would "look like his dad." After all of the horror stories I was prepared for the worst. But he was okay when they brought him back; he wasn't crying or red in the face. His circumcision healed really well and it was not that hard to take care of. However, sometimes I do wonder if he'll be angry with us as he gets older or wish that we'd let him choose. Though, I really can't imagine a grown man voluntarily having a circumcision (unless it's for medical reasons).

I think it's just one of those really personal decisions you and your husband need to make together and not feel like you have to defend it to anyone. Good luck!

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Definitely a personal decision... it's just something we don't know much about! He's circumcised, but so's just about every American male born back then. Like formula feeding, it was the thing you do.

I've been looking around on the web, but so many of the sites I find are clearly anti-circumcision. Which is fine- but I want both sides of the story. I don't want the horror stories as much as the "regular experiences" like you're describing. (I find that when I hear horror stories, I obsess over them. And very often that's just not healthy- especially since I usually am!)

Thanks so much for your response!

[medicinal-mirth.livejournal.com]

Both my boys were circumcised. My oldest, I was very torn about the decision. I left it up to my husband, who preferred we go through with it since he was circumcised himself. I'm not going to say it was a pleasant experience. I was with my son through the whole thing, and the one thing I wished was that when we had first discussed the procedure with the pediatrician, was that he'd been a lot more graphic about it. An anesthetic was used, but it was only topical and I have no idea how much pain Joey felt, but he cried and cried. He especially objected to being held down as well.

My youngest is also a boy, and again I was torn, but we had a much better pediatrician this time. She used a local anesthetic, which of course came in the form of a shot, and Danny did cry. During the procedure, however, he didn't cry at all. He looked bewildered and he struggled a bit at being held down, but other than that he was fine. After the procedure was over, he cried, and I suspect it was more from the stress of the situation.

Would I do it again? I don't know. Probably not. I researched the pros/cons beforehand and could never quite make up my mind whether I thought it was better to go ahead with it or not, so, like I said, I chickened-out and left it to my husband. Instinct tells me that more than likely I would not do it again.

Let's put it this way, by the time I was pregnant with my third and before we knew he was a he, I already had a girl and a boy, so I didn't care which sex this one turned out to be -- except for the whole circumsision decision. In that aspect, I had hoped for another girl.

Okay, this is getting long, sorry about that, but it is a tough and very personal decision. Decide what you think is best, and stick to your guns. Whether you have the circumsision done or not, it's you and your husband's decision and hopefully the two of you agree, of course.

I do remember talking to my mother about it, and when my brother was born -- and he's older than me -- she had no clue what circumcision entailed. They were still in the hospital when it was done and she wasn't with him and suddenly he simply had no foreskin. When I had my first boy, and I told her what he went through, she was fairly shocked. Yet, she still thought it was a good idea to have it done. I think that speaks to the cultural changes we've gone through the last 30 or so years. It isn't medically necessary, but it still is a personal (and still for some a cultural) preference.

It sure as hell is no fun to think about.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

It sure as hell is no fun to think about.

Amen!!!!! Thanks for your response- especially the emotional impact of it on the mother. Our big concern right now is we just don't really know a lot about it, and finding unbiased info is pretty difficult. I'm personally sort of leaning towards "no", and I suspect my husband might be, too. He is utterly dead set against ever getting a vasectomy, just because he doesn't want anyone with a knife near there. Understandable- I have an abject fear of needles myself, to the point where that's why I'm going to try for natural childbirth- I just don't want that needle in my back. (Although we'll see what I say when they offer it!)

Thanks so much for your response!

[(Anonymous)]

I decided yes on circumcision for my son (born in 1996) because I had been around several toddlers who had problems with not being circumcised and had to have it done later and it was torturous. When they did my son, they left a lot of skin there. So much that some thought he wasn't circumcised at all. In the end, it will just come down to whatever you feel is best.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

See, that's exactly what I'm worried about- our son having problems and having to have it done later. Do you happen to know what sort of problems?

[magic-at-mungos.livejournal.com]

Well, in the UK boys don't tend to get circumcised unless their religion demands it or there's some other overriding reason for it. I understand it's different in the States....

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

But that's exactly one of the reasons I'm leaning against it. They don't do it in Europe or most other continents, and it's becoming increasing less and less common in Canada, from what I understand. And these men seem to be fine, as far as I can tell. It seems like overall it's a cultural thing, and I'm rather against doing surgury just for a cultural imperative, unless he can elect to do it himself. ::sigh::

[wordplay.livejournal.com]

I was steered over here by a post from aome. We have a son who will be six next month who is uncircumsized and I'm still glad of the fact. We are atheists who are from Christian backgrounds, so there was no cultural imperative other than the general American mainstream to do it, and at the time my son was born our peer group was comprised of academics in Austin, so there was certainly no mandate in that social circle. I gave my husband the final decision but told him why I didn't like the idea, and I asked him to read some material before he made the final decision, but it didn't take long for him to decide against it. His original impulse was to have it done due to the "looks like dad", but the next day he was like, "dude, little boy penises do not look like grown men penises anyway - hello, size and hair!" and decided that particular reasoning didn't really hold for him, and that was pretty much it.

I don't have much more to add b/c it looks like we are thinking very much along the same lines, but I did just want to chime in and say that we made the decision you're considering now and have not yet had cause to regret it. I'd be happy to answer, like, any questions or talk about it further or whatever.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Thanks! This is just so much one of those subjects people don't talk about, and I wish they did.

The reason I even posted about it is that we just don't know. We know very, very little about circumcision, and if there's any real benefit to it or anything like that. Like you, we're both from Christian backgrounds, so we don't have a religious reason to do it. And to be honest, I don't really care about what a social circle thinks, because frankly, they shouldn't have that much interest in my son's genetalia ;) Your husband's reasoning about not looking like his dad anyway is a good one- I might have to mention that.

My biggest question by far has been is there any reason to do it that's NOT cultural, and I haven't really found a satisfactory answer to that. :P

Thanks again for your response!

[minnow-53.livejournal.com]

As magic_at_mungo's says, it isn't an issue in England unless there are religious/medical reasons to do it. When my son was born the question simply didn't arise, and - touch wood - he seems to be doing fine. I feel it's a bit of an 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' problem. All boys are born with it, it's part of their anatomy, and so it seems reasonable just to leave it. But of course it is your decision.

^_^xx

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Yup- England and the rest of Europe (heck, most of the rest of the world) are my main reason for being dubious. All those men seem to be doing fine without being circumcised. And I agree with the if it ain't broke, don't fix it bit. I just don't know much about it in general- if there's serious health risks and stuff associated with not having circumcision done. It's kind of seeming like there's not.

[shaggydogstail.livejournal.com]

As a couple of people haven't mentioned, circumcision is very rare in Britain, so it's only an issue here for fairly religious Jewish parents. It's a really big cultural difference, and I'm not sure why it exists, but there it is.

I agree with your point about it being your son's body, and there is something I find a bit worrying about having what is, in my opinion, essentially cosmetic surgery performed on someone who is unable to consent to it.

I can see your logic in wanting to let your husband have the final say, but I think you have to be completely happy with the decision yourself. It was never an issue for me as my only child is a girl, and it doesn't really happen here anyway, but I can't imagine allowing my child to undergo any medical procedure unless I was convinced it was the right thing to do.

Generally speaking, I would say the default position for any surgery has to be don't do it, and only change your mind if there are good reasons to do so. So I would say the starting point for circumcision should be an assumption not to do it, unless someone with a medical degree gives you a compelling reason why it's better to go ahead than to just leave it. There is always a risk, however minor, with any surgery, so why take that risk unless you have a good reason to do so?

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

It's a really big cultural difference, and I'm not sure why it exists, but there it is.

I suspect it might have something to do with way back when when hygiene wasn't what it was today. Perhaps infections were more common back then? I know that's the reason the "don't eat pork" started. Aside from the fact it's an animal that eats waste, it was hard to explain to your average person about trichonosis, so it became a religious imperitave not to eat pork in order to protect the people. I wouldn't be surprised if circumcision has similar roots.

So I would say the starting point for circumcision should be an assumption not to do it, unless someone with a medical degree gives you a compelling reason why it's better to go ahead than to just leave it. There is always a risk, however minor, with any surgery, so why take that risk unless you have a good reason to do so?

That sums up how I seem to be leaning at the moment. What I've really been after are those medical reasons to have circumcision performed. I'm very uncomfortable with any sort of elective surgury even on myself, and in fact I'm not even very fond of piercing in general. (I don't object to people doing it, as long as they are old enough to consent to it. I just don't LIKE it for me- and that's kind of what makes me reluctant to have a boy circumcised. It IS his body.)

Thanks so much for the response!

[marauderthesn.livejournal.com]

I don't have any kids and I'm not a man, but I've read that there are some sexual nerve endings in the foreskin, and when I have a son (if I have a son) I'm not going to circumsize him. I figure if there aren't religious reasons involved, why bother?

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Cute icon :)

I'm not sure why bother- that's what I need to know. If there's a medical benefit to it, I'd be much more willing to consider it. But if there's not....

[marauderthesn.livejournal.com]

Oh, P. S.: Back when I used to read Savage Love, someone wrote in with a question about circumcision, and Dan Savage was talking about when he and his boyfriend adopted a son and were trying to figure out if they should have him circumsized.

Boyfriend: If we don't do it, his penis won't look like his fathers'.
Dan Savage: How often do guys stand around comparing dicks with their dads?

Oh, and I looked into the whole cleaning thing; it really doesn't seem hard, just like the male version of women washing their outer genitalia.

[aome.livejournal.com]

How often do guys stand around comparing dicks with their dads?

Kids are often washed by their parents at the same time as parents (ie, son takes shower with dad, mom takes bath with kid, etc), or dad is demonstrating how to pee standing up, etc, so I think "comparing dicks with their dads" - really, comparing everything against their parents - is pretty common.

[pepperjackcandy.livejournal.com]

We had our son circumcised. It's around 50/50 around here, so the "looks like Dad" thing was pretty much the deciding factor.

We also wanted him to be self-sufficient in cleaning his genitalia as early as possible. We used scented soap so that we could tell if he'd washed his hands for the first year after he started going to the bathroom on his own (i.e. until we were sure he was trained to wash his hands). I, for one, didn't want to have to have daily penis inspections until we were sure he got the hang of *that*. 8-)

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

The "looks like Dad" thing hasn't been a compelling reason for me, just because- as someone pointed out- there's also size and hair issues. But the self-sufficiency thing is something to consider! Thanks for the reply!

[momebie.livejournal.com]

There isn't a medical basis any more. We discussed it when I took Sexual Behavior, so I'm not an expert or mom or anything but I can throw out what the teacher said. He was against it. Because they used to do it because they thought foreskin was unclean or would lead to penile cancer or something and now they know differently. It can be gross, but only if you don't wash it properly, which isn't something that isn't hard to teach. But the real nixxer for him on his sons was that Dr.s can screw that one up pretty well and take off quite a bit more than they should have or cut the tip which can cause problems in function and get infected easily.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

That's what I'm really after- if there's a medical basis. I'm guessing there isn't. I did see the penile cancer thing, but that's SO rare anyway... and I've seen studies on HIV, but I don't buy those at ALL.

The last point is what I'm a bit worried about. All surgury carries risks. Sometimes, the benefits WAY outway the risks. Sometimes, they don't. If they don't, why do it?

[phoenixw.livejournal.com]

I decided, 15 years ago, to not have my son circumcised. From what I read at the time, I decided that it's a brutal practice, performed without anesthesia. I've heard that doctors defend it by arguing that babies don't have fully developed nervous system and therefore don't feel pain the way they do when they get older. I'm not buying it. It's a cultural practice and not medically necessary. I decided that he can always have the foreskin removed when he's grown, if he decides that he really wants to do that. Teaching him to keep it clean was really no problem. And now that he's old enough to articulate on the subject, he says he doesn't mind being intact.

Yay for talking about "those things we don't talk about"! :-)

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

We just went to the doctor today, and we're going with the "if it ain't broke..." approach. It's the not medically necessary part that REALLY gets me. If it was medically necessary, I'd feel bad that it's painful, but at least there would be a reason, y'know? I've read some of the same stuff about the baby being in pain, and others about a local anesthetic, but yeah. I kind of feel the same.

And I'm glad so many people have come over and been willing to talk about it! The doctor today told us that people do it because back in the 60s the AMA said you should, but there's no big reason and the reason they don't is lack of education. Well, heck with that!!!!

[topaz-eyes.livejournal.com]

Hmm... YMMV. I grew up with 3 brothers. My oldest and youngest brothers were circumcised, my 2nd youngest wasn't. I remember he had a few urinary tract infections as a young child. That probably tipped the scales for brother #3 but I wouldn't know. But. All the studies say--there's no real medical reason. Brother #2 probably was one of those few boys who would have gotten UTIs anyway.

My hubby (who is circumcised--yeah I know, TMI) knows a couple of men who were circumcised as adults. Their comments were--the head of the penis is extremely sensitive, but it becomes far less sensitive to stimulation when circumcised, because the foreskin protects it.

Hubby was a little older (about 3) when he got "the cut", and he remembers it was bloody painful. (I can't imagine how a newborn would feel, because I'd think the urine would irritate it somewhat.) He wouldn't recommend it. Our almost 4-year-old son is not circumcised, because we believe it wasn't necessary. We're not religious so that's no issue, and it's not medically necessary, so why bother? It's not hard to retract it to clean (you don't do that for the first several months anyway because the tissue is very delicate). It's also not hard to teach a boy to retract his own foreskin and clean when he's older. (That's his excuse anyway if you catch him playing with himself. "Mommy I was just retracting my foreskin." Sure you were.)

You're right it is a very personal decision. Just whatever you decide, do it because you believe it's best for your son. That's the only important criterion.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Thanks- especially for the bit about your hubby being older and able to remember it, and the stuff about the men getting it as an adult. We had an apppointment today, and the doctor did say there's really no medical reasoning for it. So yeah. It ain't happening at this point! I just really have a problem with doing any surgury when there's no benefit that outweighs the risks!

Thanks!

[kokopoko.livejournal.com]

Considering that there is no pain killer they give the baby, I had decided not to do it if I had a boy.

There is a car around town with bumper stickers saying "circumcision is the cruelest cut" and another bumper sticker showing a line drawing of a baby straped down in a cruicifixion position getting circumcised! Yikes. Got to wonder about those people.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Don't know that I'd put it on a bumper sticker, but after talking to my doctor today... yeah. Not happening. Thanks for the reply!

[sophie8.livejournal.com]

There really isn't a medical reason for doing it. It was once thought to be more hygenic but it's been proven otherwise.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

That's exactly what I wanted to know, and pretty much what I thought. (And I'm not sure it wasn't more hygenic back when people didn't bathe as frequently, but now that we do....)

[tefkas.livejournal.com]

Well, fwiw, I'm a guy, and I haven't been circumcised - 'tain't so common on this side of the pond.

My personal take is that since there's no medical reason, nor any religious motive or strong swing either way on you, the parents' part, the best strategy is surely if it ain't broke, don't fix it, and leave things as they are.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Thanks. I think that's exactly what we're going to do. It's been very interesting to get the perceptions of people from outside America, and just in general. It's something people just don't talk about it, and we just felt completely clueless. I'm not to keen on making such a decision just because "well, that's what we do here in America!"

Thanks for the reply!

Funny you should ask; I just read something about this

[graycie23.livejournal.com]

Being Jewish, I'm relatively glad I don't have to make this decision, although I do remember a few years ago there was a big to-do over Jewish women challenging the whole circumcision-as-law thing because it seemed so cruel to do that. Jewish custom is to actually give the baby a drop (okay, one drop) of wine to consecrate the act, but d'you think the sedative properties of alcohol might be the basis for this part of the tradition?

As to the medical benefits, as was stated above there isn't really anything to indicate that being circumcised is any better or worse, but just a few days ago there was a report that circumcised men are less likely to contract HIV than uncircumcised men, possibly partly because of the inability of the virus to live in open air, and partly because of the keratinization of the tip of the penis (I am pretty sure this means a toughening of it; isn't keratin what makes your fingernails hard?). The story I found was here (http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=healthNews&storyID=2005-10-26T190356Z_01_RID668464_RTRUKOC_0_US-CIRCUMCISION-HIV.xml&archived=False).

Best of luck!

Re: Funny you should ask; I just read something about this

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

You know- I saw that. One of the things that the naysayers to that study are saying is that the studies take place largely in Africa, and the places where circumcision take place tend to be where sex ed is better, or something like that. Regardless, HIV is a big thing with me, and I don't want my son having any idea (especially at 16) that he might have "extra" protection!! :)

I can understand better if there's a religious custom behind it. I'm not sure what I'd do, per se, if I was Jewish, but I'm not, so... no religious imperitive :)

Thanks for the reply!

[topaz7.livejournal.com]

We've got two boys, my husband is cut, my children are not. I agree with the "if it ain't broke" theory, and couldn't imagine putting them under the knife at what, 2 days old? I'm too wimpy for that. It has never been an issue.

Most kids around here are not done any more. I'm sure it varies from place to place.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Yeah- my doctor today said California and the South do it less- it's more a Northeastern thing. We're Northeast, but after talking to her today...

I'm mean. I have absolutely no care about the "psychological impact", because by the time he IS old enough that he's actually changing in the locker rooms, he's old enough to deal with looking different and knowing exactly what circumcision is, and to understand why we didn't have it done to him. And as far as looking like Dad, as someone upscreen pointed out, there's a huge difference between a 3 year old and a 40 year old penis anyway!!!! He's not gonna look like Dad regardless!

Thanks for the reply!

[(Anonymous)]

You don't need to pay attention to me, since I'm just a LJ cruiser who happened to read your post, but here in Europe it's not common at all and I never heard of anyone having problems with infections or anything. Men wash up in the shower of course, but hopefully they'd do that anyway ;). Just some water does the trick. After all, foreskin is perfecly natural.

All the best!

[(Anonymous)]

Another thing I thought about, since you seem to worry about the health issue. I'm thinking, if it was healthier, wouldn't Europeans do it as well? I mean, the health care here is just as good as yours (well at most places) and to me, it seems unlikely they'd not do it if there was good medical reason. I'm guessing it's only about tradition.

Have a nice weekend!

[kuggerboy.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the US, South Korea, and eh, the Philippines are the only nations that practice non-religious circumcision regularly, that I know of. It has no proven medical benefits, and no medical associations in the US say it does anyway. It started off as a shitty way to stop masturbation in England, and uh, for some reason, people in the US keep on doing it, for progressively stupider reasons (It looks 'nicer', his father is circumcised...eh.)...South Korea does it because of US influence, and the Philippines do it because of Islam influence. The foreskin is torn off, it is mutilating and painful and nonconsensual and causes a loss of sensation for the rest of his life...and why would you do it? The hell? It was never 'crucial'.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Part of my original objection to it is the fact that it's nonconsensual. This is HIS body- not ours- and I feel like if he wants something done that has no influence on his health, he should be the one to make that decision. (Kind of like piercing ears on baby girls.) What I really wanted to know is if there was a medical reason for it. If there was a medical advantage, I'm much more willing to consider! But if there isn't... (and it doesn't sound like there is), forget it.

And all this psychological stuff? Bullshit. He's not going to look like his dad anyway, given that 3 year olds and 40 year olds don't look the same. And by the time he's actually changing in front of other boys (ignoring any streaking tendencies toddlers have), he's old enough to understand what circumcision is and why we didn't have it done- and he's plenty old enough to stick up for himself. (I didn't start changing in locker rooms until I was in 7th grade. He can handle it at that age!)

[dae5885.livejournal.com]

There have been some recent studies that are supporting the theory that circumcision helps lower the risk of AIDS transmission.

(pointed your way by aome)

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the reply!

I'm actually chosing to ignore that, because to be honest, I think it's a very dangerous statement to make- especially to a sixteen year old boy who thinks he's invulnerable anyway! (I also have some questions about the study methodology.) If they could prove it for certain, I'd be more inclined to accept it, but I'd rather my kids believed that the only ways to avoid AIDS transmission are abstinance and absolute fidelity, with condoms being up there as well. AIDS is scary enough that I want them having NO false confidence. Not that I'm saying that's why we wouldn't circumcise- just saying that study isn't enough to convince me there's a medical benefit.

Thanks!

[sullacat.livejournal.com]

My reasons for having it done to my son were solely so that he would look like all his friends.

To me, it's kinda like vaccines. You will always find research showing the negatives. For all the reasons that you find that it is harmful or bad, most pedi's still recommend it. That was enough for me.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the reply!

I think we're going against it, just because the doctor actually did recommend against it. But vaccines are happening! :)

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think it would be something your son would decide to have done later. My brother was not circumsized until he was 4. (never really understood why) and my mom said it was extemely painful for him. Odds are the older he was, the more painful it would be, so probably not something he would choose to do later in life.

As far as "Looking like dad" it would just be a smaller and larger verison if they were both circumsized. A circumsized penis looks very different from an uncircimsized one.

And this I can speak of from expierence.....little boys are not big on personal cleanliness. There will come a time when he does not want mommy (or daddy for that matter) seeing him naked. The only way you will be able to make sure he is cleaning it will be to actually check, and believe me that will be a fight. If he does not pull the foreskin back regularly to clean, the foreskin can attach itself to the rim of the head of the penis. It is very painful to have it un-attached. It happened to my son.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the reply! The biggest argument to me is him not being big on personal cleanliness. That's one that I think has a medical benefit, and is kind of what I'm looking for in terms of "why SHOULD we do it?" (There don't seem to be a lot of arguments for!)

Thanks!

[wildflower150.livejournal.com]

My little girl is just baout 3 months old and obviously this wasn't an issue for us but we did discuss it since I didn't know I was having a girl. We would have gotten it done for a variety of reasons which you and others have already mentioned.

You should lookj at where you get it done because many Dr's now use painkillers and freezing while doing it. The Dr who would have done our baby if it was a boy used both.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the reply!

I think we're going to go without. We talked to the doctor on Friday and she said there's no medical benefit whatsoever, and it's slowly becoming less common in the US. I'm not too into the social benefit, because for all that people use the "looking like his friends" thing, by the time he will actually be naked in locker rooms, he will be much older and able to understand exactly why we did this. (And come up with some pretty nasty retorts about other guys looking at his penis, I'm sure. Heh.) So I think we're headed European, just because it doesn't seem that necessary.

Thanks!