All Or Nothing
Nov. 14th, 2005 10:50 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
lls_mutantAll Or Nothing: A HP-related Shipping Rant Because I am Bored, and Quite Generic in General, and the Roles of Love And Relationships In Fiction Anyway.
So I'm sitting here in limbo, with the house clean and some writing to do and other than that, just waiting for my life to change and turn upside down. So, because I am bored, I am going to annoy you, my f-list and anyone who happens across this essay, with a little rant.
So I went over to FAP, and I was reading the "Fate of Slash Post-HBP" thread, which wonders about the effect that Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince will have on slash. As would be entirely expected, it degraded down to a Sirius/Remus discussion thread, because the only major slash ship that ever really believed they had a chance at canon confirmation was Remus/Sirius. I'd like to believe Harry/Draco fans knew that that would never happen, and most Snape/Lupin shippers seem pretty reasonable, and a lot of the other slash ships never remotely deluded themselves. So the Harry/Draco writers, the Snape/Harry enthusiasts, the Oliver/Percy crew... they continue writing happily because who ever cared about canon in the first place, so why SHOULD HBP have any effect? (Although I will admit: I can't stand Harry/Draco, and even I was beginning to wonder about Harry.) Anyway. Through the discussion, someone made the assertation that the events of HBP renders the relationship between Sirius and Remus down to casual sex, if you want to ship them, because their actions in Half-Blood Prince indicate that it can in no way be Deep And Passionate Love.
Now, I'm not interested in starting the "can it or can't it?" debate. Probably 80% of my f-list or people reading this like reading Sirius/Remus, and some of you don't, and there's even one or two of you who don't read Harry Potter fanfic at all. We've all been over this, and frankly, I think it gets boring for us all unless we're in the mood to debate fruitlessly. So that's not what I'm interested in. What I'm interested in is the perception that the relationship must be casual sex OR Deep and Passionate Love. I'm interested in this perception because it pervades fandom.
Now, I'm probably utterly preaching to the choir here. I suspect that the portion of fandom that believes in the all-or-nothing scenario tends to be young, and with a couple of exceptions every person that actively interacts with me seems to be over 20. Plus, I've either read your work and seen the complexities, or I haven't but we've discussed it and one of the reasons I can respect what you ship is you DON'T go for the all-or-nothing approach. But this still bothers me.
It's a common trend in fanfic. Love strikes, and when it does, it is not a gradual process. It's a lightning bolt that sets the lover on fire and consumes everything about them. (It's also a common trend in the Dragonlance series, which is like the ultimate fanfic where people actually got paid to write it, and is pretty crappy writing at times.) Love at first sight is common, and so is a sudden and intense love between friends. And once that love hits, that is the primary motivating factor in everything either person in that ship must do.
Come on- admit it. I don't care what you ship: Harry/Ginny, Remus/Sirius, Remus/Tonks, Harry/Hermione, Ron/Hermione... you've seen this played out in countless fanfics. Sometimes it's less blatant than what I'm describing here, but I'm willing to bet every last one of you- in every ship out there- has seen it.
Now, I've got a couple of problems with this. Some are personal, some are objective, and because I am bored as I said, and procrastinating doing any real writing, I am going to list my problems, one by one.
1.) Love at first sight is bullshit.
Okay, yes, I'm totally irritable these days, thus the profanity I've been tending towards.
This is one of those personal things. I fully do not believe in love at first sight. I don't believe you can look at a person and "just know." I DO believe that you can look at a person and, in some way, on some level, be so attracted that you want to get to know that person better, and that love can develop out of that. But love at first sight? No.
Part of this extends from my definition of love. Love is not something that is given because the lover has no reason. Love has standards. Love has reasons. We love the people we do because we see something in them that makes them worth loving. Some of these reasons are easy to define: we love a person because they are honest, or noble, or they have a great love of family, or some other characteristic that we as the lover has deemed important in our personal values. Some of these reasons are anectodotal and are based in our history: through something we did with that person, we came to understand, value, and trust them. We created a bond with them. And some of these reasons are beyond explanation: you could know two men who both have every trait you want and you have a long, close history with, but you love one romantically and the other inspires nothing like that in you. But all of these things take time. Love is partly a conscious decision. Love at first sight is not.
However, love at first sight is a common cliche, not just in the Harry Potter fandom, but in literature/fiction in general. But keeping it in Harry Potter, to be honest... it's really, really squicky to me, because for many of these couples, "first sight" was when they were 11.
And strongly related to #1:
2.) Love takes time and effort to develop.
This seems like pretty much the same point, and in many ways, it is. Love implies a deeper relationship and knowledge of a person that can only be gained through spending time with them. And it can't just be a casual "spending time". A certain level of trust must be established so both members of the relationship feel free to open up and expose what they may not otherwise confide.
You can know someone for a long time and still know very little about them. Think of your co-workers. Do you know what their home life is like? Where they went to school? What they wanted to be when they grew up? Are their parents alive or dead? What are some of their major tragedies and triumphs? What are their passions? What are their hobbies? I can't answer most of these questions about most of the people I worked with for two years, and we see that in the Potter-verse, too. It took Harry four years to learn about Neville's parents. The Harry-Neville friendship is one that didn't develop overnight, and only develops when Harry puts the effort and time into it. (And one thing I really like about JKR's writing- she really acknowledges this!)
But that leads me to my other point that expands on how love takes time and effort to develop. Even if we are friends with the person in general, that doesn't necessarily make a romantic relationship an easy leap. There can be a certain amount of distance in friendships, a lack of emotional intimacy that's not present in love. (Again, look at the Harry-Neville friendship and compare it to Harry-Ron.) One doesn't simply turn around and go from friends to Deep and Passionate Love with another person- that romantic love that develops out of a relationship also takes time. True, the process can be avrebbiated, but it can not be skipped altogether.
3.) Have you ever heard of dating?
I'm not talking about dates, per se. I don't really care what the details of dates are. Picnics or pool, study dates or Madame Puddifoots, aside from my general griping that I've never been out with a man who planned elaborate or "romantic" dates as a matter of course (and that two guys are much more likely to go play pool than they are to set foot anywhere NEAR Madame Puddifoot's), I'm not concerned with the details of dates. Rather, I'm concerned with the dating process.
What happens when you date someone? You see someone you like, be it a stranger you met at a party or in a class or at an Order meeting, or a friend you've known for a long time and are starting to look at differently. You arrange to get together sometime. You go out on a date. If you enjoy each others' company and that enjoyment is mutual, you go out on another one. And another one. At some point, you begin a physical relationship. You might go slow, taking until marriage to reach sexual relations, or you might sleep together on the first date. This is more likely a reflection of your values and sexual attitudes and attractions than it is an automatic reflection of love, but we'll get there in a minute. But as you continue to date, you continue to grow closer.
Inevitably, you begin to argue. Sometimes the arguments are frivolous, but many times, they are not. They are a way of sorting out how you relate to each other and how you cope with your differences in relating to people. A successful couple can navigate this territory. They may never agree, but they can accept that they won't. An unsuccessful couple will break up (hopefully).
In my experience, there seen to be several points in a relationship where arguments peak. One is at three months. This is when the infatuation has worn off and you begin to decide if you're going to give this a serious go. Another is at one year, where again, you are forced to decide if this is worth sorting some of these deeper issues out, or if you want to just move on. And then again at two years, where the expectation of marriage becomes an issue. Of course, these are generalizations. But each time you survive one of these milestones, the relationship deepens.
What does this mean? It means that a person's value to you is not a constant. I did not love my husband as much after three months of dating him as I did after a year, and I certainly love him much more now. A relationship is not an "on-off" switch, but rather more like a volume control.
These first three points, which are all tied closely together, are rarely shown in fanfic. I'm not sure if it's because we as a society (especially a female society) have bought into the "perfect storybook love" model of relationships, or if because there's a lot of writers out there that don't have the patience or the skill to pick up the nuances in relationships, or what. But it's a view I see reflected in fics far and wide.
4.) Dating other people before you find your One True Love is not only common, but can be a good thing. And you need not hate your exes.
It's a fact of life. Sometimes relationships don't work. And while yes, you have people out there willing to cheat and abuse and hurt, sometimes relationships don't work because you simply don't love each other enough. And there's nothing wrong with that.
And yet, exes are a rarity in fanfic.
How many fics have Remus Lupin living as a monk for the twelve years that Sirius was in prison? How many fics have Harry and Ginny living happily ever after forever, with Cho only being the heinous bitch that interfered in true love for a while? How many fics refuse to acknowledge that Tonks- a personable, social girl- might have had other lovers that she sincerely enjoyed?
How many fics acknoweldge that sometimes, love dies?
I don't need to see an ex in every fic. I really don't. Sometimes, there's just not room for one. Somtimes it's silly. Sometimes JKR hasn't left you room for an ex (especially if you're writing Harry/Cho or Molly/Arthur or something where it's obvious or implied that the couple got together at a very young age.) But the idea that love must be all or nothing does not allow for exes in the healthy sense of the word. You find your true love, and that is it. Everything else (if there was an everything else) is valueless.
This is silly, because if all goes well, we learn from our exes. Worst case, we learn what we don't want in a relationship. Best case, that ex helps us become who we are and we part on good terms. I have a two particular exes that I remember very, very fondly as guys who really helped me shape my life and my perspective on men. Neither worked out, no. One was my high-school boyfriend, and we dated for three months. I think part of why we broke up was he couldn't handle the pressure of dating me- we started dating shortly after my father was diagnosed with luekimia. (We dated all of three months.) And yet, despite the fact our romantic relationship didn't work out, he was still a huge support when my father passed away nine months later. It taught me that you don't need to be in love to care deeply about someone, and it taught me that people worth knowing will be there for you in times like this. It also taught me that friendship can be stronger than romance, and romance is not the be all and end all. The other ex was a guy I dated on the rebound from an ex I remember less fondly. The good guy and I went to different schools, and the relationship fell apart eventually. But again, very similar lessons, and we both danced at each other's weddings with nothing but happiness for the other person.
The fact that these relationships fell apart doesn't mean that they were valueless when I had them. The fact I am married now and in love also does not devalue those relationships. But more than that, in a fanfic frame of reference, the fact that these relationships existed and fell apart says to me that there are degrees of love. I loved both of these guys in some way, and still do. And yet, it's not the same as my husband. But God forbid you see any temporary relationships in fanfic, unless you need a villian. Then an ex can serve quite nicely.
5.) So you love someone. Great. That's wonderful. But it does not dictate your entire existance.
Finally, people love each other, and that will influence what they do. But not all other relationships drop off the face of the earth when you are in love. (Or at least, they shouldn't.) People in love still have best friends, parents, children, and other family and friends. And they still have themselves. They have pets, hobbies, careers, and ambitions. And depending on the needs of the moment, their love for their spouse/partner/whatever does not need dictate the actions they are taking.
Just because Harry hooks up with Ginny does not mean he does not love Hermione, or Ron. It does not mean that Ginny must be the number one priority in his life. (In fact, if you want to stay in character, she can't be. Voldemort is.) Just because you believe Sirius and Remus were sleeping together does not mean that Sirius can't have felt closer to James, who was like a brother. Likewise, the existance of these other bonds does not negate the importance of the romantic one. Harry loves Hermione dearly as a friend- but that does not mean he can't love Ginny in a different way. Sirius and James are like brothers, but that does not render their bonds with Peter and Remus as inconsequential. To do so actually makes the perceptions of relationships quite unhealthy.
Love is complicated, because PEOPLE are complicated. We all have diferent forces that pull at us. Love of job, love of self, love of family, love of friends, love of lover... sometimes they are complementary, sometimes they are not. Sometimes we need to make decisions and prioritize. And in fanfiction, when a relationship is reduced down to all or nothing, it loses the humanity of the characters that are involved in the relationship. It becomes sterile and bland and unrealistic and boring.
Anyway, it's almost lunch time, so I should stop preaching to the choir and go eat, so I can open some writing and get something productive done. Plus, I should do a load of laundry, at least. Anyway, this rant is over, yes, because I ran out of steam, but hey. It was fun.
I promise my next post won't be quite so bitchy :)
So I'm sitting here in limbo, with the house clean and some writing to do and other than that, just waiting for my life to change and turn upside down. So, because I am bored, I am going to annoy you, my f-list and anyone who happens across this essay, with a little rant.
So I went over to FAP, and I was reading the "Fate of Slash Post-HBP" thread, which wonders about the effect that Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince will have on slash. As would be entirely expected, it degraded down to a Sirius/Remus discussion thread, because the only major slash ship that ever really believed they had a chance at canon confirmation was Remus/Sirius. I'd like to believe Harry/Draco fans knew that that would never happen, and most Snape/Lupin shippers seem pretty reasonable, and a lot of the other slash ships never remotely deluded themselves. So the Harry/Draco writers, the Snape/Harry enthusiasts, the Oliver/Percy crew... they continue writing happily because who ever cared about canon in the first place, so why SHOULD HBP have any effect? (Although I will admit: I can't stand Harry/Draco, and even I was beginning to wonder about Harry.) Anyway. Through the discussion, someone made the assertation that the events of HBP renders the relationship between Sirius and Remus down to casual sex, if you want to ship them, because their actions in Half-Blood Prince indicate that it can in no way be Deep And Passionate Love.
Now, I'm not interested in starting the "can it or can't it?" debate. Probably 80% of my f-list or people reading this like reading Sirius/Remus, and some of you don't, and there's even one or two of you who don't read Harry Potter fanfic at all. We've all been over this, and frankly, I think it gets boring for us all unless we're in the mood to debate fruitlessly. So that's not what I'm interested in. What I'm interested in is the perception that the relationship must be casual sex OR Deep and Passionate Love. I'm interested in this perception because it pervades fandom.
Now, I'm probably utterly preaching to the choir here. I suspect that the portion of fandom that believes in the all-or-nothing scenario tends to be young, and with a couple of exceptions every person that actively interacts with me seems to be over 20. Plus, I've either read your work and seen the complexities, or I haven't but we've discussed it and one of the reasons I can respect what you ship is you DON'T go for the all-or-nothing approach. But this still bothers me.
It's a common trend in fanfic. Love strikes, and when it does, it is not a gradual process. It's a lightning bolt that sets the lover on fire and consumes everything about them. (It's also a common trend in the Dragonlance series, which is like the ultimate fanfic where people actually got paid to write it, and is pretty crappy writing at times.) Love at first sight is common, and so is a sudden and intense love between friends. And once that love hits, that is the primary motivating factor in everything either person in that ship must do.
Come on- admit it. I don't care what you ship: Harry/Ginny, Remus/Sirius, Remus/Tonks, Harry/Hermione, Ron/Hermione... you've seen this played out in countless fanfics. Sometimes it's less blatant than what I'm describing here, but I'm willing to bet every last one of you- in every ship out there- has seen it.
Now, I've got a couple of problems with this. Some are personal, some are objective, and because I am bored as I said, and procrastinating doing any real writing, I am going to list my problems, one by one.
1.) Love at first sight is bullshit.
Okay, yes, I'm totally irritable these days, thus the profanity I've been tending towards.
This is one of those personal things. I fully do not believe in love at first sight. I don't believe you can look at a person and "just know." I DO believe that you can look at a person and, in some way, on some level, be so attracted that you want to get to know that person better, and that love can develop out of that. But love at first sight? No.
Part of this extends from my definition of love. Love is not something that is given because the lover has no reason. Love has standards. Love has reasons. We love the people we do because we see something in them that makes them worth loving. Some of these reasons are easy to define: we love a person because they are honest, or noble, or they have a great love of family, or some other characteristic that we as the lover has deemed important in our personal values. Some of these reasons are anectodotal and are based in our history: through something we did with that person, we came to understand, value, and trust them. We created a bond with them. And some of these reasons are beyond explanation: you could know two men who both have every trait you want and you have a long, close history with, but you love one romantically and the other inspires nothing like that in you. But all of these things take time. Love is partly a conscious decision. Love at first sight is not.
However, love at first sight is a common cliche, not just in the Harry Potter fandom, but in literature/fiction in general. But keeping it in Harry Potter, to be honest... it's really, really squicky to me, because for many of these couples, "first sight" was when they were 11.
And strongly related to #1:
2.) Love takes time and effort to develop.
This seems like pretty much the same point, and in many ways, it is. Love implies a deeper relationship and knowledge of a person that can only be gained through spending time with them. And it can't just be a casual "spending time". A certain level of trust must be established so both members of the relationship feel free to open up and expose what they may not otherwise confide.
You can know someone for a long time and still know very little about them. Think of your co-workers. Do you know what their home life is like? Where they went to school? What they wanted to be when they grew up? Are their parents alive or dead? What are some of their major tragedies and triumphs? What are their passions? What are their hobbies? I can't answer most of these questions about most of the people I worked with for two years, and we see that in the Potter-verse, too. It took Harry four years to learn about Neville's parents. The Harry-Neville friendship is one that didn't develop overnight, and only develops when Harry puts the effort and time into it. (And one thing I really like about JKR's writing- she really acknowledges this!)
But that leads me to my other point that expands on how love takes time and effort to develop. Even if we are friends with the person in general, that doesn't necessarily make a romantic relationship an easy leap. There can be a certain amount of distance in friendships, a lack of emotional intimacy that's not present in love. (Again, look at the Harry-Neville friendship and compare it to Harry-Ron.) One doesn't simply turn around and go from friends to Deep and Passionate Love with another person- that romantic love that develops out of a relationship also takes time. True, the process can be avrebbiated, but it can not be skipped altogether.
3.) Have you ever heard of dating?
I'm not talking about dates, per se. I don't really care what the details of dates are. Picnics or pool, study dates or Madame Puddifoots, aside from my general griping that I've never been out with a man who planned elaborate or "romantic" dates as a matter of course (and that two guys are much more likely to go play pool than they are to set foot anywhere NEAR Madame Puddifoot's), I'm not concerned with the details of dates. Rather, I'm concerned with the dating process.
What happens when you date someone? You see someone you like, be it a stranger you met at a party or in a class or at an Order meeting, or a friend you've known for a long time and are starting to look at differently. You arrange to get together sometime. You go out on a date. If you enjoy each others' company and that enjoyment is mutual, you go out on another one. And another one. At some point, you begin a physical relationship. You might go slow, taking until marriage to reach sexual relations, or you might sleep together on the first date. This is more likely a reflection of your values and sexual attitudes and attractions than it is an automatic reflection of love, but we'll get there in a minute. But as you continue to date, you continue to grow closer.
Inevitably, you begin to argue. Sometimes the arguments are frivolous, but many times, they are not. They are a way of sorting out how you relate to each other and how you cope with your differences in relating to people. A successful couple can navigate this territory. They may never agree, but they can accept that they won't. An unsuccessful couple will break up (hopefully).
In my experience, there seen to be several points in a relationship where arguments peak. One is at three months. This is when the infatuation has worn off and you begin to decide if you're going to give this a serious go. Another is at one year, where again, you are forced to decide if this is worth sorting some of these deeper issues out, or if you want to just move on. And then again at two years, where the expectation of marriage becomes an issue. Of course, these are generalizations. But each time you survive one of these milestones, the relationship deepens.
What does this mean? It means that a person's value to you is not a constant. I did not love my husband as much after three months of dating him as I did after a year, and I certainly love him much more now. A relationship is not an "on-off" switch, but rather more like a volume control.
These first three points, which are all tied closely together, are rarely shown in fanfic. I'm not sure if it's because we as a society (especially a female society) have bought into the "perfect storybook love" model of relationships, or if because there's a lot of writers out there that don't have the patience or the skill to pick up the nuances in relationships, or what. But it's a view I see reflected in fics far and wide.
4.) Dating other people before you find your One True Love is not only common, but can be a good thing. And you need not hate your exes.
It's a fact of life. Sometimes relationships don't work. And while yes, you have people out there willing to cheat and abuse and hurt, sometimes relationships don't work because you simply don't love each other enough. And there's nothing wrong with that.
And yet, exes are a rarity in fanfic.
How many fics have Remus Lupin living as a monk for the twelve years that Sirius was in prison? How many fics have Harry and Ginny living happily ever after forever, with Cho only being the heinous bitch that interfered in true love for a while? How many fics refuse to acknowledge that Tonks- a personable, social girl- might have had other lovers that she sincerely enjoyed?
How many fics acknoweldge that sometimes, love dies?
I don't need to see an ex in every fic. I really don't. Sometimes, there's just not room for one. Somtimes it's silly. Sometimes JKR hasn't left you room for an ex (especially if you're writing Harry/Cho or Molly/Arthur or something where it's obvious or implied that the couple got together at a very young age.) But the idea that love must be all or nothing does not allow for exes in the healthy sense of the word. You find your true love, and that is it. Everything else (if there was an everything else) is valueless.
This is silly, because if all goes well, we learn from our exes. Worst case, we learn what we don't want in a relationship. Best case, that ex helps us become who we are and we part on good terms. I have a two particular exes that I remember very, very fondly as guys who really helped me shape my life and my perspective on men. Neither worked out, no. One was my high-school boyfriend, and we dated for three months. I think part of why we broke up was he couldn't handle the pressure of dating me- we started dating shortly after my father was diagnosed with luekimia. (We dated all of three months.) And yet, despite the fact our romantic relationship didn't work out, he was still a huge support when my father passed away nine months later. It taught me that you don't need to be in love to care deeply about someone, and it taught me that people worth knowing will be there for you in times like this. It also taught me that friendship can be stronger than romance, and romance is not the be all and end all. The other ex was a guy I dated on the rebound from an ex I remember less fondly. The good guy and I went to different schools, and the relationship fell apart eventually. But again, very similar lessons, and we both danced at each other's weddings with nothing but happiness for the other person.
The fact that these relationships fell apart doesn't mean that they were valueless when I had them. The fact I am married now and in love also does not devalue those relationships. But more than that, in a fanfic frame of reference, the fact that these relationships existed and fell apart says to me that there are degrees of love. I loved both of these guys in some way, and still do. And yet, it's not the same as my husband. But God forbid you see any temporary relationships in fanfic, unless you need a villian. Then an ex can serve quite nicely.
5.) So you love someone. Great. That's wonderful. But it does not dictate your entire existance.
Finally, people love each other, and that will influence what they do. But not all other relationships drop off the face of the earth when you are in love. (Or at least, they shouldn't.) People in love still have best friends, parents, children, and other family and friends. And they still have themselves. They have pets, hobbies, careers, and ambitions. And depending on the needs of the moment, their love for their spouse/partner/whatever does not need dictate the actions they are taking.
Just because Harry hooks up with Ginny does not mean he does not love Hermione, or Ron. It does not mean that Ginny must be the number one priority in his life. (In fact, if you want to stay in character, she can't be. Voldemort is.) Just because you believe Sirius and Remus were sleeping together does not mean that Sirius can't have felt closer to James, who was like a brother. Likewise, the existance of these other bonds does not negate the importance of the romantic one. Harry loves Hermione dearly as a friend- but that does not mean he can't love Ginny in a different way. Sirius and James are like brothers, but that does not render their bonds with Peter and Remus as inconsequential. To do so actually makes the perceptions of relationships quite unhealthy.
Love is complicated, because PEOPLE are complicated. We all have diferent forces that pull at us. Love of job, love of self, love of family, love of friends, love of lover... sometimes they are complementary, sometimes they are not. Sometimes we need to make decisions and prioritize. And in fanfiction, when a relationship is reduced down to all or nothing, it loses the humanity of the characters that are involved in the relationship. It becomes sterile and bland and unrealistic and boring.
Anyway, it's almost lunch time, so I should stop preaching to the choir and go eat, so I can open some writing and get something productive done. Plus, I should do a load of laundry, at least. Anyway, this rant is over, yes, because I ran out of steam, but hey. It was fun.
I promise my next post won't be quite so bitchy :)
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no subject
Date: 2005-11-14 05:29 pm (UTC)I'd just like to add, however, that these problems are in no way limited to fanfic. Lots of books and movies fall into the same stupid traps, with the same unrealistic consequences.
no subject
Date: 2005-11-15 02:47 am (UTC)Actually, I was thinking about taking the rant and changing the slant of it from HP-shipping to movies (particularly romantic comedies), because it's been a while since I've written an article for MRFH, and I'd like to get one in before Toby's born.
It's funny, because the whole Dragonlance thing is really what got me going on this, and the comments in HP fandom just set the match to the kindling, as it was. :)
no subject
Date: 2005-11-15 03:02 am (UTC)It's a funny thing about romantic comedies. I don't mind watching them, and they can be a whole lot of fun, but the idea that anybody would take them as a realistic portrayal of love is just scary. (The genre as a whole, I mean -- there probably are semi-realistic ones out there, but they are very few and very far between.) Most romantic comedies couldn't be any more fantasy if they actually had unicorns and crystal castles and fairy godmothers. :)
And why are you reading Dragonlance?!?! Stop! Go read A Song of Ice and Fire instead. Help raise the standard of fantasy literature one novel at a time. Make the world a better place.
no subject
Date: 2005-11-15 03:07 am (UTC)And I'm reading Dragonlance because I take a bath every night, and I don't take decent books in the bath. That way, if I drop them, it's no big deal. I'll have to look into A Song of Ice and Fire. Maybe ask for it for Christmas! :)
no subject
Date: 2005-11-15 03:14 am (UTC)Weird.